I don't want to go into managment or consulting, I love being a developer. There is just this misconception that companies think it is a reward for you to put you there. "Hey this guy is really good at developing software, you know what we should do, stop him from writing code and sit him in meetings with stupid people until he becomes one himself"
Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
171–180 of 303 posts
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm over 40 and I've always worked as a consultant. Until recently I was the sole developer on a site doing eight figures in revenue (now I'm team lead). Without being arrogant here, if my skills match but someone doesn't want my level of experience, it's not a good sign for the someone. On the flip side, I would love to throw out all of the languages and frameworks I've been using for the past few years and learn en…
Did you grow the site into 8 figures or brought on board? What was the site doing? I would imagine management would be terrified of reliance on one, bus-getting-hit-by developer.
You'd be surprised how cheap or short sighted managers can sometimes be. I guess from their point of view they might see a developer as overly expensive and dogmatic.
I've seen companies with 7-8 figures and reliant on just 3-4 devs with unique and non overlapping abilities. It's more common than you think!
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
I presume a troll? At 25 I graduated as MSc (physics), had not worked a day in the industry, and began my PhD studies. At 26 I figured computer graphics where much more fun than running quantum physical simulations in a lonely cellar and began my software engineering career. At which point I was still pretty clueless of the complexities of software engineering in the industry. The time limit is not age but how much e…
>I presume a troll? At 25 I graduated as MSc (physics), had not worked a day in the industry, and began my PhD studies. At 26 I figured computer graphics where much more fun than running quantum physical simulations in a lonely cellar and began my software engineering career. At which point I was still pretty clueless of the complexities of software engineering in the industry. How did it work out for you? I am curio…
For me it worked pretty fine careerwise (I'm now 35 to be precise). I'm working now in the technology development department of a multi-discipline CAD vendor, everyone else is really talented and I mostly enjoy my tasks. I even get to write simple linear algebra like a QR decomposition now an then. The job is stable, mentally stimulating and my co-workers are sensible human beings - who are mostly way past their 30s and some over 50s.
I turned to software engineering because computer graphics gave and give me such a huge kick. I don't know what intrinsically motivates you so I cannot comment whether I would suggest the career for you or not. Here's the rub: software engineering can be viewed in some circles as blue-collar work, which means the work environments can vary quite a lot. Also, the discipline is really young, and it shows in the amount of cargo cult and bullshit quotes one finds peddled as "best practices". There can be gigs where co-workers are experts and those can be great, however, there can be lot of environments where co-workers are perpetual expert beginners and those can suck big-time (or so I've heard).
Realistically, software engineering is still a pretty solid career choice so from a sustenance point of view I'm sure there are far worse options one can choose.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's funny you should say that. A few years ago, at a company whose name everyone here knows I, an old gray-hair, almost lost my full-time job for warning a VP that she was about to make a mistake I'd seen before. I honestly thought she was joking when she told me about the approach she was going to use to deal with a "hard deadline" of four months. I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized…
To be honest, I don't find it that surprising. Being laughed at is not something people take kindly to. Of all the possible ways of letting her know that you thought her plan sucked, that was the one that was doomed to fail right from the start.
An experienced and mature manager might appreciate the frankness.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be honest, I don't find it that surprising. Being laughed at is not something people take kindly to. Of all the possible ways of letting her know that you thought her plan sucked, that was the one that was doomed to fail right from the start.
An experienced and mature manager might appreciate the frankness.
You can be frank without laughing at it.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
"B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously." This can be a positive. My experience with 40+ year olds is that they tend to sacrifice user experience/security for what they know. "Our customers won't care if they have to use Internet Explorer with ActiveX as long as it gets the job done." My point is that an experienced programmer who is not up to date can be as detrimental an arrogant 20 year…
Other 'sticks with what they know to a detriment' are devs that stick with SCMs such as svn or cvs or even rcs when things like git or mercurial are out there. Younger devs who do have experience with this stuck in their ways behaviors and it can be frustrating and they try to side step it by not engaging the older devs.
Other 'sticks with what they know to a detriment' are devs that stick with SCMs such as svn or cvs or even rcs when things like git or mercurial are out there.
Don't mistake not buying the hype for sticking with something just because you know it. While there aren't a lot of reasons to favour RCS or CVS when Subversion exists, there are sensible reasons you might favour SVN over a DVCS for some projects.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#177Lets see every 20-30 year old we have brought in the past 3 years: A) Is so arrogant they think they know it all. Then when they turn in the code it's barely passable and it become clear they are going to be difficult to work with. B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously. Now every 35+ person we have brought in for a project is: A) Professional. Gets the job done and very well. B) Sees the…
"B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously." This can be a positive. My experience with 40+ year olds is that they tend to sacrifice user experience/security for what they know. "Our customers won't care if they have to use Internet Explorer with ActiveX as long as it gets the job done." My point is that an experienced programmer who is not up to date can be as detrimental an arrogant 20 year…
Software is a tricky balance between practicality and ideals.
In this example, the older programmer may figure he can meet the real requirements faster and with less risk using technologies he's already familiar with. He might be right!
Unfortunately, there's also a good chance he's being lazy, or political, or etc.
Try to give it a really good objective look to see for yourself which one it is. If the latter, you can try to influence the developer in an ego-friendly way or consider leaving if it becomes unbearable. If your managers have no real technical experience themselves then they are useless in these situations.
Good chance it won't be the last time you have to deal with this sort of thing. (coming from an old-ish dev)
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
An experienced and mature manager might appreciate the frankness.
You can be frank without laughing at it.
For sure. Don't be a dick is a pretty good strategy. However, I didn't get the impression that was his intent though: "I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized that I was actually laughing at her actual plan".
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#179Working in the Austin startup scene, I definitely get a sense that this is an issue amongst younger companies. However, I look at my father who's now with a massive merchant software company and there's not a single person in his division under the age of 40 (a lot of these guys are maintaining legacy mainframes, etc.)
About a year ago, the company realized that they're SOL with a n aging employee base and no one coming in to replace them once they retire. He's always argued that larger companies will come calling once the boomers are out, but I shutter at the thought of having to learn COBOL.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
> At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame At 25...
I presume a troll? At 25 I graduated as MSc (physics), had not worked a day in the industry, and began my PhD studies. At 26 I figured computer graphics where much more fun than running quantum physical simulations in a lonely cellar and began my software engineering career. At which point I was still pretty clueless of the complexities of software engineering in the industry. The time limit is not age but how much e…
If you graduate at 21 and start working immediately, by the time you're 25 you'll have 4 years of experience with a few shipped mid-size projects under your belt. It's not that uncommon.