A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early • Hacker News Board

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#141

Post by noir_lord » Tue, Apr 07, 2015, 11:58 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #103

psychometry wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deal you get from prosecutors is only as good as your lawyer and good lawyers cost money. This is what happens when the criminal justice system is run by politicking judges and prosecutors elected by a public whose understanding of punitive systems doesn't get any more nuanced than "let's be hard on crime!"

> This is what happens when the criminal justice system is run by politicking judges and prosecutors elected by a public The same stupidity is on display in states that don't elect their judges or prosecutors. The problem is that there is no incentive for actual justice. Neither the judge nor the prosecutor pay for the incarceration. Nor do they care for how long the individual is incarcerated. Might be nice if they…

Holy shit.

That's brilliant!

Calculate the number of judge sentence years based on prison places, want harsher sentences build more prisons, tie the cost of incarceration directly to judges sentencing.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#142

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Apr 07, 2015, 11:59 PM UTC

ecdavis wrote: post #140

mikeash wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The quote begins, "They originally charged me," so I'm guessing some of the charges were dropped? Even then, it comes down to a jury to decide guilt. This is another deplorable aspect of the US justice system. The vast majority (something like 95%) of convictions are not from jury trials, but from plea bargains. Piling on charges is one way prosecutors force plea bargains on suspects. It's likely that the prosecuto…

Great point, I didn't consider that.

It's surprising that none of the binge-watched documentaries touched on the pervasive practice of plea bargaining. Without it, we'd have far fewer people in prison.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#143

Post by nknighthb » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:15 AM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #71

nknighthb wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offenses were not against the United States. This man is in a Colorado prison for crimes under Colorado law. The President has no authority in this case.

There are enough federal inmates with good reasons for pardon. And mass pardons of federal prison could hint the governors about their power too.

1) The governors have powers that vary from zilch to equal to the President's. This is determined state-by-state.

2) You are mistaken if you believe all or even a substantial minority of the governors would ever agree with your views in this matter.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#144

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:15 AM UTC

mineshaftgap wrote: post #28

briantakita wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business as usual in the Prison Industrial Complex, aka the New Jim Crowe. Some people make lots of money by locking people up. I don't expect the laws to change anytime soon.

Most of the victims of gangster thug types are ordinary black people. Only confused white people view the thugs as the victims.

I doubt Mr. Takita is one of those. You seem to be the one out of touch, however. The vast majority of American blacks are opposed to the policies of the Ferguson Police Department, the Drug War, and the mass incarceration of black men. Violence is visited most upon this community, but it didn't arise spontaneously. It has been fostered for generations by openly racist legal policies.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#145

Post by ThrustVectoring » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:19 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #20

mschuster91 wrote: post #4

Talk about cruel punishments, locking up someone for two fucking robberies without any deaths for nearly a century is unreasonable, cruel and defies everything our civilization stands for. But hey, private prison operators need to make money and police/DA/any part of the justice system profits from being "tough on crime"... Thank God I'm German, even if you end up killing someone you'll at most get 15 years (okay, th…

Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. If you're robbing a place and your punishment for being caught is effectively life in prison, what reason do you have not to murder all the potential witnesses to improve your odds of getting away with the crime? All you have is morality, and I don't want to rely on the morality of c…

I may be misremembering the story or context, since I can't find it with an internet search at the moment.

There was an ancient Chinese general, who lost a battle. The punishment for failure was death. The punishment for mutiny was also death. The general learned of this, and lead his soldiers in a revolt.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#146

Post by nknighthb » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:21 AM UTC

fixxer wrote: post #138

akira2501 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The children who are going to grow up without a father, yea, I'm thinking about them. Who's going to raise them? A single mother, if they're lucky. Think she's going to have an easy time re-marrying with an ex-con husband? How about getting a good job in the era of background checks? Think she was highly educated to begin with? Taxpayers at large are going to foot most of bill for this domestic disaster. Further, the…

You are criticizing a negative feedback loop while simultaneously endorsing policies that would create equally detrimental feedback loops. What is true justice?

Whatever justice is, it cannot be the vengeful, racist, wealth-centered system we have now. Nor can it possibly be found in the the mind of anyone prone to uttering the phrase "fuck this guy".

Whatever justice is, it cannot be forfeiting our own empathy and humanity.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#147

Post by mikeash » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:23 AM UTC

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #145

mikeash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. If you're robbing a place and your punishment for being caught is effectively life in prison, what reason do you have not to murder all the potential witnesses to improve your odds of getting away with the crime? All you have is morality, and I don't want to rely on the morality of c…

I may be misremembering the story or context, since I can't find it with an internet search at the moment. There was an ancient Chinese general, who lost a battle. The punishment for failure was death. The punishment for mutiny was also death. The general learned of this, and lead his soldiers in a revolt.

I recall a similar one where a work party for the Great Wall was delayed, and delay was punishable by death, so the leader of the work party led them on a successful revolt instead, and became emperor.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#148

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:24 AM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #80

barking wrote: post #76

I would like to see clemency for this man but I don't view the european system as being necessarily superior to the USA. In my country there are a lot of avowedly unrepentant murderers walking the streets after 'life' sentences that in some cases lasted less than a decade. The state has decided to show compassion. It's easy to forgive someone when you're not the victim or one of those who loved a victim. Personally I…

If this was really an issue, shouldn't the murder rates in European countries be a lot higher than in the US? According to Wikipedia [0] the "intentional homicide" rate in the US is 4.7, in the UK 1.0 and in Germany 0.8. Shouldn't those numbers be reversed if the European system was releasing "avowedly unrepentant murderers" back onto the streets? [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

European nations should be compared to European nations. American nations should be compared to American nations. Actually just a glance at your wikipedia page makes this clear: different continents simply have different murder rates. I feel this phenomenon is rooted in historical colonization.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#149

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:28 AM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #49

> and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. And why is he not rubberstamping such when the prison situation in US is cruel, sadly not unusual and definitely unjust.

Actually they could just start with all the drug incarcerations. Not only do those crimes have no plausible victims, but the eventual verdict of posterity on the entire practice of drug prohibition is pretty clear even now. Why wouldn't any politician want to get on the right side of that?

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#150

Post by caf » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 12:33 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #128

zaroth wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now when a cop shoots you while you are trying to rob a bank, it's suicide? This seems like a perfect example of felony murder.

I'm with you. If said person had not decided to commit a crime, the person would likely not have died. It's not different than if I were speeding recklessly, zoomed by some old person who gets scared, runs off the road and dies. Maybe they shouldn't be charged with murder, but maybe manslaughter? Their actions directly contributed to the death of someone.

It's not different than if I were speeding recklessly, zoomed by some old person who gets scared, runs off the road and dies.

It's vastly different. The old person in your example is not a willing part of your crime.

Frankly the concept is absurd. Innocent bystanders and responding law enforcement that are killed in the commission of the crime can be said to have been murdered, but willing participants have died primarily as a result of their own actions, which is not murder under any sensible definition.