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A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

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Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#41
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. Maybe everybody should go to prison for a while to stop crime before it even starts. Disproportionate penalties may be as likely to harden them as reform them. What you get out isn't a repentant model citizen. Unless your goal is to let these people rot and die and just release cor…

This is a reasonable comment, but what does it have to do with the comment you replied to?

I think he misread it. I had to absorb the sentiment of the rest of the post and re-read your first line a few times to properly parse it.

For me, "the less you discourage" reads less clearly than "the more you encourage". I realise that the two aren't identical in meaning, but I would have chosen the latter because a compounded minimization ("the less you don't do x") is generally less immediately clear than a maximization ("the more you do x").

This is compounded by your opening of "Another side of this". This can mean "another aspect of the problem you describe which agrees with your point" but it can also mean "another aspect of how sentencing should work that comes to a different conclusion". For many, the latter is more intuitive ("two sides to every story" etc etc).

Not passing judgement on how you worded your post, just explaining why someone might misread it.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#42
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. Maybe everybody should go to prison for a while to stop crime before it even starts. Disproportionate penalties may be as likely to harden them as reform them. What you get out isn't a repentant model citizen. Unless your goal is to let these people rot and die and just release cor…

This is a reasonable comment, but what does it have to do with the comment you replied to?

You know -- I think we're on the same page wrt how the punishment really ought to fit the crime; I misread what you were saying :)

Maybe I should take it down -- initially I thought you were talking about discouraging crime w/ a big punishment, but in fact you were talking about discouraging a criminals restraint because they're already going to get nailed in a big way...

I think I'll take mine down and let your original post stand.

Edit: or I'll just leave it so the flow is preserved -- there's a thread here now that explains everything. Let the downvotes fit the crime though, please ;)

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#43
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. If you're robbing a place and your punishment for being caught is effectively life in prison, what reason do you have not to murder all the potential witnesses to improve your odds of getting away with the crime? All you have is morality, and I don't want to rely on the morality of c…

> Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. Actually it makes it easier ... there is upper limit on how much you could punish a person. And if the penalties for stealing pack of gum and high treason are the same - well ... why bother with only the first.

That's what I said: harsh punishment for minor crimes reduces the deterrent effect of harsh punishment for major crimes.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#44
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. If you're robbing a place and your punishment for being caught is effectively life in prison, what reason do you have not to murder all the potential witnesses to improve your odds of getting away with the crime? All you have is morality, and I don't want to rely on the morality of c…

The main function of prisons is to keep the criminals away from law-abiding society. Note that the guy's accomplice continued his criminal behavior inside prison. That said, 10-15 is more than enough for this kind of crime.

The main function of prisons is to keep the criminals away from law-abiding society

Really? I thought it was about correcting/reforming.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#45

Talk about cruel punishments, locking up someone for two fucking robberies without any deaths for nearly a century is unreasonable, cruel and defies everything our civilization stands for. But hey, private prison operators need to make money and police/DA/any part of the justice system profits from being "tough on crime"... Thank God I'm German, even if you end up killing someone you'll at most get 15 years (okay, th…

Not to mention they slapped them with kidnapping charges because they forced the people they were robbing into a room.... How the fuck.... The sad truth is the American people simply do not care. Period. If you are a criminal you are a nobody and you get everything you deserve in the eyes of many Americans. People sit and rot in prison for the stupidest of reasons or technicalities and then when they get out we are s…

I think its easy to say that sitting in your chair from this side. I would imagine that if I was one of the people in the bank that was being robbed, and I were forced in to a room. I would feel that I was being kidnapped / held hostage.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#46
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. If you're robbing a place and your punishment for being caught is effectively life in prison, what reason do you have not to murder all the potential witnesses to improve your odds of getting away with the crime? All you have is morality, and I don't want to rely on the morality of c…

> Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. Actually it makes it easier ... there is upper limit on how much you could punish a person. And if the penalties for stealing pack of gum and high treason are the same - well ... why bother with only the first.

Read that sentence/post again, because the two of you agree.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI "because I want the person to suffer" is not a valid reason to lock someone up. We lock people up as a punishment just like your parents may have sent you to your room when you were acting up. We do it under the thinking of they won't do it again once they've paid their debt but that thinking is flawed on SO many level. Among them are: 1. Prison does NOT reform people in fact it pushes many deeper into a life of…

> FYI "because I want the person to suffer" is not a valid reason to lock someone up. I don't know if it's valid, but it certainly a reason why we lock people up. "An eye for an eye" is a universal principle and I assume victims expect some type of revenge. Maybe that's something we should refrain from in a perfect world, but I don't think we're there yet!

Don't know about you, but to me punishment is about first and foremost protecting the society from persons actions and about offering a chance for redemption/improvement.

Vengeance is never a good agenda. Eye for an eye is an universal sadist principle.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#48
post #42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a reasonable comment, but what does it have to do with the comment you replied to?

You know -- I think we're on the same page wrt how the punishment really ought to fit the crime; I misread what you were saying :) Maybe I should take it down -- initially I thought you were talking about discouraging crime w/ a big punishment, but in fact you were talking about discouraging a criminals restraint because they're already going to get nailed in a big way... I think I'll take mine down and let your orig…

Leaving it is good by me. Like I said, it's a reasonable comment, just seemed out of place since it sounded like disagreement but said the same thing. Now that everyone knows what's up, it fits fine.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#49
> and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

And why is he not rubberstamping such when the prison situation in US is cruel, sadly not unusual and definitely unjust.

Re: A man who was accidentally released from prison 88 years early

#50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another side of this is that the harsher you make the punishments for small crimes, the less you discourage moving up to bigger crimes. Actually it makes it easier ... there is upper limit on how much you could punish a person. And if the penalties for stealing pack of gum and high treason are the same - well ... why bother with only the first.

Read that sentence/post again, because the two of you agree.

Too many monsters too little sleep :(
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