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Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

developers.facebook.com

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Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#161

Post by Glyptodon »

simoncion wrote: post #51
automathematics wrote: post #30

Also it is worth mentioning that Google Talk !== Google Hangouts Everyone who uses XMPP/iMessage/Adium to connect to Google Talk is: 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Haven't been able to track it down but it's gotten me in trouble with my girlfriend a few times for "ignoring her" 2) Your friends see you as "Online" on hangouts and send you messages, which often seem to relate to #1 (you never…

> 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Shit, Hangouts itself is an unreliable message delivery system. [0] At least once an month in both group chats and one-on-one chats I will get messages that seem out of context. Somewhere between many minutes and an hour later, the messages between the OOC one and the previous [1] message will silently appear. The "new" messages are inserted between the previ…

I stopped using hangouts with Google voice because messages were only infrequently delivered.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#162

Post by smrtinsert »

zamalek wrote: post #134
LewisJEllis wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all reminds me of this post: http://daltoncaldwell.com/dear-mark-zuckerberg Facebook is trying to make the platform too good for startups to resist building on. By the time something built on the platform emerges as a success, Facebook can either heavy-hand them into an acquisition, or lock them out and take away their momentum.

It's as though they are trying to get everyone else to do their RND. You float the risk and if it works they implement it. Genius, really.

The latter seemed obvious to many people though. I think a lot of people ran with that risk anyway in hopes of becoming an acquisition.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#163

Post by amyjess »

jkarneges wrote: post #5
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #2

Sigh , yet another nail in the XMPP coffin, at least as far as the general public is concerned. Remember when we had ICQ, and AIM, and MSN Messenger, and Gadu-Gadu, and we were dreaming of a unified messaging system?

Now we have twice as many incompatible services. And still dreaming. :/

It's worse now.

Back then, we had Pidgin, Trillian, Kopete, etc. that would let us connect to all our messaging services with one client.

But nowadays nobody even tries to reverse-engineer protocols anymore. Where are all the people reverse-engineering Hangouts or Facebook Messenger? I wish we could teleport the people who reverse-engineered AIM, Yahoo!, and MSN to the present day, because they don't seem to exist anymore.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#164

Post by hackerboos »

darklajid wrote: post #148
hackerboos wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why I can't use XML, JSON, MsgPack or YAML. Couldn't the parsing be a pluggable component? Just set a standard on how data is structured and let third-parties figure out how data is parsed.

And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ? Are you saying mom and dad aren't using XMPP because the message is sent using XML based stanzas? Facebook is ditching XMPP because of the X? It doesn't matter?

>And that would improve the XMPP adoption and experience by ... ?

Saving battery on mobile devices for one.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#165

Post by ge0rg »

amyjess wrote: post #160
automathematics wrote: post #30

Also it is worth mentioning that Google Talk !== Google Hangouts Everyone who uses XMPP/iMessage/Adium to connect to Google Talk is: 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Haven't been able to track it down but it's gotten me in trouble with my girlfriend a few times for "ignoring her" 2) Your friends see you as "Online" on hangouts and send you messages, which often seem to relate to #1 (you never…

What I'm more disappointed in is that third-party developers aren't even trying anymore. Back in the day, there were some truly impressive efforts to reverse-engineer AIM's protocol (and Yahoo! and MSN...) despite AOL actively trying to defeat them. Nowadays, nobody even tries. When Google launched Hangouts, there was no massive reverse-engineering effort. Just people saying "I'll stick with XMPP and just not use the…

There are just too many different proprietary IM protocols, and they are often fast moving targets. You can't keep up with a team of Google engineers tweaking their protocol every day.

Have a look at WhatsApp, there was a bunch of efforts to reverse engineer their protocol, and they ended up non-working, abandoned or C&Ded [0]

[0] https://github.com/venomous0x/WhatsAPI/issues/83

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#166

Post by ge0rg »

throwawayaway wrote: post #114
Tepix wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem right now is persistent connections on iOS. You need to use push messages instead, which requires a plugin on the jabber server and a matching client. Not something you can expect all your friends to set up.

i thought push notifications worked with IM+ on iOS? i am not very familiar with either though, so i'm probably wrong.

There is a number of IM clients for iOS, that store your credential "in the cloud" (use their own infrastructure to terminate the XMPP connection and route push notifications to their clients). This is not ideal for your privacy, to put it into friendly words.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#167

Post by Shank »

smrtinsert wrote: post #159
automathematics wrote: post #30

Also it is worth mentioning that Google Talk !== Google Hangouts Everyone who uses XMPP/iMessage/Adium to connect to Google Talk is: 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Haven't been able to track it down but it's gotten me in trouble with my girlfriend a few times for "ignoring her" 2) Your friends see you as "Online" on hangouts and send you messages, which often seem to relate to #1 (you never…

Why IRC isn't the foundation for all chat I still don't know. I assume a lot of the typical workflow (logging in, choosing a nick) can be automated for users who don't care to know what chat protocol they are using.

NetSplit? Intermittent network disconnect and suddenly ghosts? No delivery reports? No read tickets?

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#168

Post by throwawayaway »

ge0rg wrote: post #166
throwawayaway wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i thought push notifications worked with IM+ on iOS? i am not very familiar with either though, so i'm probably wrong.

There is a number of IM clients for iOS, that store your credential "in the cloud" (use their own infrastructure to terminate the XMPP connection and route push notifications to their clients). This is not ideal for your privacy, to put it into friendly words.

interesting! i think iMessage works like that. not sure that IM+ does, but it might well.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#169

Post by rilita »

IRC was essentially created 25 years ago. In all that time we have still to make anything significantly better.

Why does a system with the following features not exist:

1. Requires all implementing servers and clients to support the full protocol

2. Allows users to communicate to users on other servers ( not just users within a server )

3. Has free client open source reference implementations for native use ( C or the like ) and some web language ( Python & Dynamic JS )

3b. Has a free open source server reference implementation

4. Logging on the server indefinitely

5. Is always encrypted ( end to end via public keys, so that clear data never reaches the servers )

6. Offline messaging

7. Large file transfer with clean re-connection and continuation ( if neither party has a publicly accessible port, payment/membership to the server would be required to facilitate the transfer... )

8. Random chat

9. Group chat

10. Utf8 for full multi-lingual use

11. Index of users for finding other users

If someone would just create such a thing it would put an end to all the stupid shifting from one system to another from year to year. I'm getting tired of switching systems and reverse engineering shitty protocols in order to continue doing the same thing with less features.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#170

Post by shepardrtc »

nostrademons wrote: post #48
automathematics wrote: post #30

Also it is worth mentioning that Google Talk !== Google Hangouts Everyone who uses XMPP/iMessage/Adium to connect to Google Talk is: 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Haven't been able to track it down but it's gotten me in trouble with my girlfriend a few times for "ignoring her" 2) Your friends see you as "Online" on hangouts and send you messages, which often seem to relate to #1 (you never…

This may not be unique to XMPP...I use regular Google Hangouts with my fiancee (also on stock Google Hangouts) and have found that occasionally messages to my fiancee get to her hours later or not at all. Apparently the Hangouts team doesn't consider "reliable message delivery" to be a key feature. I think people don't realize just how unreliable the major messaging networks are. There was a Reddit thread a year or s…

Its not XMPP that's the problem, its Google Hangouts. Google Talk didn't drop messages (and its the one using XMPP).
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