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Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

developers.facebook.com

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Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#111

Post by runn1ng »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #49
jkarneges wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now we have twice as many incompatible services. And still dreaming. :/

This is what we get when we embrace closed platforms. Free Software gets you nice, simple, easy to use services and closed platforms will always manipulate you for their needs. This is why I want to make a Free Hardware cell phone. I have made one wireless product already and wrote the frequency hopping stack myself, but something like a phone needs better data rates and a more advanced protocol. Still, I dream of a…

> Free Software gets you nice, simple, easy to use services

While there are many upsides to free software, usability and user friendliness were never one of them.

Hackability, sure. But most people don't care, let's be frank. I will use Hacker News because it works despite being proprietary software.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#112

Post by Tepix »

_nedR wrote: post #88
nostrademons wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may not be unique to XMPP...I use regular Google Hangouts with my fiancee (also on stock Google Hangouts) and have found that occasionally messages to my fiancee get to her hours later or not at all. Apparently the Hangouts team doesn't consider "reliable message delivery" to be a key feature. I think people don't realize just how unreliable the major messaging networks are. There was a Reddit thread a year or s…

What is worse is that all Internet banking and debit card transactions online(in India at least) depends on SMS for OTP as mandated by RBI guidelines. I have had OTP messages arrive 6 hours late while trying (and failing) to initiate banking transactions (which have a timeout period of 1 - 2 minutes).

Your bank is using a bad SMS service provider. With a SS7 uplink (versus a cheap SMPP connection), it should arrive within seconds, with a delivery report for the sender, if desired.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#113

Post by Tepix »

throwawayaway wrote: post #32
automathematics wrote: post #30

Also it is worth mentioning that Google Talk !== Google Hangouts Everyone who uses XMPP/iMessage/Adium to connect to Google Talk is: 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Haven't been able to track it down but it's gotten me in trouble with my girlfriend a few times for "ignoring her" 2) Your friends see you as "Online" on hangouts and send you messages, which often seem to relate to #1 (you never…

setup a ejabberd server on a beaglebone and put a web xmpp client on it. encrypt the shit out of everything, get your friends on to it. i'm sure there's valid business reasons to kill xmpp, not just total information awareness pressures from above.

The problem right now is persistent connections on iOS. You need to use push messages instead, which requires a plugin on the jabber server and a matching client.

Not something you can expect all your friends to set up.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#114

Post by throwawayaway »

Tepix wrote: post #113
throwawayaway wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

setup a ejabberd server on a beaglebone and put a web xmpp client on it. encrypt the shit out of everything, get your friends on to it. i'm sure there's valid business reasons to kill xmpp, not just total information awareness pressures from above.

The problem right now is persistent connections on iOS. You need to use push messages instead, which requires a plugin on the jabber server and a matching client. Not something you can expect all your friends to set up.

i thought push notifications worked with IM+ on iOS? i am not very familiar with either though, so i'm probably wrong.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#115

Post by Corrado »

phillc73 wrote: post #107
hengheng wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I don't do web or software development, let me tell you^W^Wrant about how chat in 2015 feels to use. I'm 27, I grew up on IRC, I know my ICQ UIN by heart. Chat has always replaced SMS for me, and most groupware as well. I was happy when Facebook came along, and suddenly even the non-nerdy friends were compatible with my preferred way of having an endless conversation about random things. Chatting feels natural to…

> ... persistent group chat, shared chat history with a search function, synchronized unread/read statuses.... Across all my devices - Web, Linux, Android and FirefoxOS. No advertising. Telegram - http://telegram.org I've been using it for several months now and am very happy. Would love integrated voice calling, especially to landlines/mobiles, and hope someone develops a plugin for this soon (perhaps the guys at Ja…

Telegram looks really interesting. It has an open protocol and API so it should be easy to integrate with other systems; there is a libpurple port for it[1]. Maybe Telegram could be a replacement for XMPP?

[1] https://github.com/majn/telegram-purple

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#116

Post by zamalek »

fenesiistvan wrote: post #105

Can anybody tell me, why the SIP chat protocol is so under used? https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3428.txt -based on open standards (SIP) -supported by most VoIP servers (so we have full interoperability between vendors such as Cisco, Huawei, Siemens, Voipswitch, Mizutech, Jitsi and others) -simple and extendable -lots of free services, free/open source software. You can also host your own or integrate into your company P…

I've heard from people who have tried to implement it: SIMPLE (3428) is anything but simple. It is a very good example of "enterprise design." In addition, as soon as you start extending the protocol there is a very good chance that your implementation will no longer be interoperable. Take Lync (Microsoft's implementation of SIMPLE) as an example: due to the presence of custom extensions, clients have to implement specific support for it - the protocol doesn't gracefully degrade like XMPP does.

Basically, XMPP came first (first foot in the door) and is a significantly superior protocol due to its simplicity.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#117

Post by tfar »

Tepix wrote: post #113
throwawayaway wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

setup a ejabberd server on a beaglebone and put a web xmpp client on it. encrypt the shit out of everything, get your friends on to it. i'm sure there's valid business reasons to kill xmpp, not just total information awareness pressures from above.

The problem right now is persistent connections on iOS. You need to use push messages instead, which requires a plugin on the jabber server and a matching client. Not something you can expect all your friends to set up.

You could also have clients and servers implement http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html .

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#118

Post by giovannibajo1 »

jonalmeida wrote: post #33

To play devil's advocate, what part of the XMPP protocol is dated, that doesn't allow Facebook and Google to continue using it? Maybe if there's a way to update XMPP to include features that shared amongst these services, they can fall back to using it?

Just like SIP, XMPP is one thing on paper (with all extensions) and a different thing in reality, where different clients communicate through different servers with different set of extensions.

What you can always do reliably is have a buddy list with status presence, and do 1-1 chats. In my company, with all Linux clients, we couldn't even manage to send files reliably across different clients.

What Google and Facebook need across a messaging service is much more:

* sending pictures, displayed inline * sending audio messages * making phone and video calls * sending money * being battery friendly through push notifications * having chat history reliably stored across devices * persistent group chats with advanced client-level tuning (eg: turn off notifications), again shared through multiple devices

Notice that most of these features require implementation and design on both the server and client level; not having control over client implementations means it might take many years to get a feature standardized and adopted by the majority of clients.

I think Google really tried to make XMPP go forward, but in the end it was slowly them down too much compared to competitors going full proprietary like Apple.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#119

Post by izacus »

xfalcox wrote: post #69
jklp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found out about Goofy a couple of months ago and when I'm at my desk, I don't have to use my phone at all for messaging (except for whatsapp). Now I'd wish someone would do the same for Gmail chat / Hangouts, or maybe a way to combine all the webviews into one ;)

Hangouts new chrome extension, the one with float circles, it's pretty good, and works on Linux.

Unfortunately it doesn't work well on OS X and still requires me to run Chrome in background next to the Firefox leading to alot of annoying horrible window switching issues (for some reason chrome apps tend to get stuck in background when alt-tabbing, sometimes it just hangs, burns alot of memory for a really simple interface....)
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