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Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

developers.facebook.com

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Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#121

Post by izacus »

jonalmeida wrote: post #33

To play devil's advocate, what part of the XMPP protocol is dated, that doesn't allow Facebook and Google to continue using it? Maybe if there's a way to update XMPP to include features that shared amongst these services, they can fall back to using it?

Probably the part where they're not locking you in their network by way of convenience. Forcing you to use their homepage (FB) or browser (Hangounts) and preventing you form using unified messengers gives their other services exposure and makes users advertise/annoy friends to join their chat service.

Much like Apple is doing with the "green bubble" shaming on their keynotes.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#122

Post by benbristow »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #55
cbhl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that XMPP was based on XML. New hotness is JSON, or maybe even compressed binary protocols.

I don't know if you're being ironic about JSON. Note that jkarneges, who comments elsewhere in this thread, is the creator of Psi [1], arguably the best XMPP-focused messaging client. The value/burden of XML has always been a topic of debate for XMPP. In retrospect, I think it contributed to its lack of appeal, though the extensibility and readbility (ehm, arguably) it provided were unique back then. I've long wonder…

XML is horrendous. Especially to parse/scrape. JSON on the over hand is a breeze.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#123

Post by hackerboos »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #55
cbhl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that XMPP was based on XML. New hotness is JSON, or maybe even compressed binary protocols.

I don't know if you're being ironic about JSON. Note that jkarneges, who comments elsewhere in this thread, is the creator of Psi [1], arguably the best XMPP-focused messaging client. The value/burden of XML has always been a topic of debate for XMPP. In retrospect, I think it contributed to its lack of appeal, though the extensibility and readbility (ehm, arguably) it provided were unique back then. I've long wonder…

I don't see why I can't use XML, JSON, MsgPack or YAML.

Couldn't the parsing be a pluggable component? Just set a standard on how data is structured and let third-parties figure out how data is parsed.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#124

Post by 72deluxe »

automathematics wrote: post #30

Also it is worth mentioning that Google Talk !== Google Hangouts Everyone who uses XMPP/iMessage/Adium to connect to Google Talk is: 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Haven't been able to track it down but it's gotten me in trouble with my girlfriend a few times for "ignoring her" 2) Your friends see you as "Online" on hangouts and send you messages, which often seem to relate to #1 (you never…

Ahhhh that'll explain never receiving messages and my friends not getting them. Some bust scenarios I experience:

1. I will call my wife using Hangouts - she won't be notified on her phone.

2. I chat with someone via Google Talk on my old phone - if they're using Hangouts, they may or may not receive the message.

3. Someone will chat with me via Hangouts. My phone with Google Talk may or may not receive it; BUT! if I open the web browser version on a laptop, it'll receive it (and makes me look like an ignorant weirdo when I reply to messages that have been "there" for days...

Mobile hangouts to mobile hangouts mostly works (apart from the video call at intermittent times). Oddly, the Hangouts client will say that the person was not available for a video call (ie, they didn't pick up) but they didn't receive any alert or ANYTHING to state that there was a call coming in.

No offence to the team there, but it's a piece of junk. Video calling and voice calling and text all worked fine under Google Talk; under Hangouts, I might as well be putting messages in bottles and hoping they will reach the destination...

Even MSN Messenger was more reliable, and that was 15+ years ago; I am not sure how this is not a solved problem! (Not sure if they've fixed the lack of online/offline presence in Hangouts yet; if not, it is STUPID. "Are you there?" Who knows!)

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#125

Post by hackerboos »

tfar wrote: post #117
Tepix wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem right now is persistent connections on iOS. You need to use push messages instead, which requires a plugin on the jabber server and a matching client. Not something you can expect all your friends to set up.

You could also have clients and servers implement http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html .

ejabberd doesn't support 0357 [0]. Presumably because their 'pro' version has mobile support.

MongooseIM doesn't support it either, although there is talk of it being implemented [1]

To be fair though, it was only accepted on the 18th March 2015.

[0] - https://www.ejabberd.im/protocols [1] - https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/issues/405

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#126

Post by 72deluxe »

simoncion wrote: post #73
throwawayaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've had limited success, one factor that helped was me going cold turkey on the alternatives. also you define your own success, gaining a monopoly is rather a high standard!

We apparently have quite different friends. Removing myself from Hangouts means that I get information either in person, or through email, if at all. I'm currently relying on the Signal rework of TextSecure to get most of us off of Hangouts: the big barrier to adoption has been easy-to-configure clients that work on Android, iOS, and desktop and sync message history amongst clients.

I have the same experience with not being signed into chat networks, or not having Facebook / WhatsApp / Twitter etc. etc. accounts. People either don't tell me anything, or they email.

The craziest thing I get asked is "Do you have WhatsApp? I can send you pictures, and it's FREE!". Oddly the thought of sending an email with a picture attached (how easy is it on a phone these days??) doesn't pop into their mind as being "free" either!!! Insane! Email is far superior, as I can archive it unlike IM history.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#127

Post by thallian »

throwawayaway wrote: post #106
simoncion wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. You'd need a server somewhere to store and replay that message history. There is an XMPP standard that specifies how to do that. Question is whether or not your client can speak that protocol.

curiousity piqued, what's the XEP number for the protocol?

XEP-0313 I think: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#128

Post by LewisJEllis »

zamalek wrote: post #104

Zuckerberg sure has been interesting this week: > Developers please use our platform! > Developers we are now going to obsolete any work you've done with the XMPP front-end. Demonstrating a clear moving target is not how you attract developers, Facebook.

It all reminds me of this post: http://daltoncaldwell.com/dear-mark-zuckerberg

Facebook is trying to make the platform too good for startups to resist building on. By the time something built on the platform emerges as a success, Facebook can either heavy-hand them into an acquisition, or lock them out and take away their momentum.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#129

Post by greggman »

72deluxe wrote: post #124
automathematics wrote: post #30

Also it is worth mentioning that Google Talk !== Google Hangouts Everyone who uses XMPP/iMessage/Adium to connect to Google Talk is: 1) Apparently missing some messages from Hangouts users. Haven't been able to track it down but it's gotten me in trouble with my girlfriend a few times for "ignoring her" 2) Your friends see you as "Online" on hangouts and send you messages, which often seem to relate to #1 (you never…

Ahhhh that'll explain never receiving messages and my friends not getting them. Some bust scenarios I experience: 1. I will call my wife using Hangouts - she won't be notified on her phone. 2. I chat with someone via Google Talk on my old phone - if they're using Hangouts, they may or may not receive the message. 3. Someone will chat with me via Hangouts. My phone with Google Talk may or may not receive it; BUT! if I…

Long before I hangouts I had lots of issues with Google talk. I started numbering my messages as in

1 Hey Joe

2 How are things in SG

3 Are you going to meet me at the airport?

4 Or shall I take a cab?

5 In any case I'll be into the city by 7pm so we can grab dinner

etc.

What we found was that Google talk was dropping messages. Lots of them.

With no way to complain and no way to prove it I just stopped using Google Talk. It was really disappointing to see it do so poorly though. Like most of the rest of you it seemed like chat was a solved issue.

Re: Facebook Messenger XMPP is going away

#130

Post by 72deluxe »

cplease wrote: post #87
toomuchtodo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS, the network. > If you switch devices from iPhone to Android or vice-versa, messages get lost. I moved from an Android phone to an iPhone, back to an Android, and then back to an iPhone again. I never had my messages in limbo, and its easy to fix (at least, on the Apple side) if it occurs: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204270 Note that link also comes up as a search engine provided result by google just by go…

First of all, I'll wager a supermajority of iPhone users do not understand any distinction between iMessage and SMS. Apple designs away the distinction. Secondly, when an ex-iPhone user ports away their number and is able to send SMS's without issue and receive SMS's from most of the world except for iMessage senders, how are they supposed to 1) discover they have lost messages before they lose something critical, an…

I think you're right about the lack of widespread distinction between SMS and an iMessage. It's sad.

Even sadder are the news articles (like ones you find in the technology section on the BBC website) where they refer to instant messaging as wonderful and then "if you're a bit old fashioned" and still use email...... At least emails can be easily retrieved and archived.

Perhaps people don't care about the transport medium (phone network or Internet) but it is an important distinction. It's even more important for Google users because Hangouts is very flaky for me, unlike SMS.

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