Leap: Your daily commute redesigned • Hacker News Board

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#71

Post by aetherson » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 1:26 AM UTC

pjlegato wrote: post #65

girvo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A class-based explanation and Muni being a terrible service "ripe for disruption" are not mutually exclusive. You can't, however, argue that a private bus service that requires a smartphone and costs 3x what regular public transport does doesn't have interesting effects on who can and can't use it.

Smartphones may have been highly class correlated in 2006, but they're not now. You can get one prepaid for around $30 at any cell phone shop. 77% of those 18-29 with an annual income under 30k own a smartphone.[1] Atrocious public bus service impacts the poor much more than those who are better off: someone with a salaried professional job who comes in late a couple of times a week due to Muni will usually not even…

People under 18-29 who make under $30k/year are much less likely to be traditionally "lower class" than other people in that income bracket.

But sure, smartphones are pretty widespread these days. If that were the only factor biasing these busses towards the wealthier end of the society, then the bias wouldn't be very much.

It's not the only factor.

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#72

Post by demiraven » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 1:46 AM UTC

schintan wrote: post #5

the seats look sparse ..how are they going to get by with so few seats and still be competitive on price ?

It's not so competitive in terms of price to public transit. $6 for a single ride (compared to Muni's $2.25)

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#73

Post by baddox » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 5:51 AM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #33

baddox wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many cases, taking the bus is only slightly faster than walking. I live in Soma, within one block of stops on several ostensibly good bus routes, but I still find that I need to be going at least 2 miles (sometimes even 3, depending on the destination) for it to be faster to bus than to walk. This obviously wouldn't be the case if any of said bus routes stuck even remotely to the stated schedule, or if traffic w…

> This obviously wouldn't be the case if any of said bus routes stuck even remotely to the stated schedule, or if traffic was at least somewhat predictable. These are symptoms of the same problem. In France (at least in Grenoble where I worked for a year) there are dedicated bus lanes (dedicated lights for those lanes). Without those, buses are subject to the same issues caused by traffic. I agree with the commenter…

The two problems are definitely not always related. There have been plenty of times where traffic is mild and buses simply aren't coming.

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#74

Post by mempko » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 2:45 PM UTC

pjlegato wrote: post #24

aetherson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guys. It costs 3x as much, and it's a hassle to get on without a smartphone. That's how it competes. It's a bus that tries to price out the poorer people (and doesn't serve their neighborhoods. And is most convenient with a smartphone). Their bet is that you won't miss the $4 per ride surcharge if you can avoid dealing with poor people.

Assumes facts not in evidence; there is no reason to suppose that a class-based explanation is correct when the much simpler explanation of "not having to leave an hour early to work around Muni's terrible service quality" adequately explains the situation.

It isn't a "class based" explanation. The poor and those riding the expensive buses are the same working class. I find it strange that the "middle class" considers it distinct from the "working class" when they themselves are also working class.

If you don't own a business, you are in the same class as 99% of the population.

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#75

Post by gmarx » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

eloisant wrote: post #56

gmarx wrote: post #11

I used to wonder, years ago when I lived in SF, why does a supposedly green city have such lousy public transportation? If this is successful, expect MUNI to use legal means to get rid of it.

SF was puzzling to me when I live in the Bay Area. In Paris, using your car is hell but you have a good transportation network. In smaller French cities, the transportation network is less developed but you can take your car everywhere and park easily. But San Francisco... Both parking and mass transit is bad! The only viable solution is the bike, but that only works if you're living in the city.

And bike is potentially deadly

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#76

Post by smackfu » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 7:05 PM UTC

JimboOmega wrote: post #3

A privatized intracity bus service? Somewhat interesting. But how can this compete with heavily subsidized, existing public bus service - without hitting all the same pitfalls that it does? (Like buses getting steadily less "express" as time goes on)?

Existing bus services aren't subsidized for the popular routes, they are subsidized for the unpopular routes. When you take the bus at 10 PM, and are near the end of the line, and you are the only one on the bus for 10 minutes... that's what is subsidized. A private bus company could just say, "sorry, not enough passengers to run that route today."

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#77

Post by smackfu » Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 7:09 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #30

themagician wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It competes by doing things like not complying with existing regulation, laws, or unions. It's an "app" and thus except from all regulation. So they don't pay a driver $70,000/yr and give him or her a pension. They can pick stops based on profitability, not access. They carry the bare minimum of liability insurance because if anything happens they can just close up shop. They don't have to comply with the Americans w…

Ok, I'll bite, why on earth does a bus driver deserve $70,000 a year and a pension? There are billions of people in the world who would kill to do that job for $35,000 and no benefits.

Why Muni can’t find good drivers: http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/why-muni-cant-find-go...

The starting wage is $18 an hour, going up to $30. The $70k is with overtime. So the starting worker probably does make more like $35k, which isn't exactly amazing in San Francisco.

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#78

Post by testingonprod » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 7:40 AM UTC

gmarx wrote: post #75

eloisant wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF was puzzling to me when I live in the Bay Area. In Paris, using your car is hell but you have a good transportation network. In smaller French cities, the transportation network is less developed but you can take your car everywhere and park easily. But San Francisco... Both parking and mass transit is bad! The only viable solution is the bike, but that only works if you're living in the city.

And bike is potentially deadly

It's absolutely deadly in traffic

Re: Leap: Your daily commute redesigned

#79

Post by testingonprod » Thu, Mar 19, 2015, 7:42 AM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #44

throwawaymsft wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're on a comfortable bus, in a comfortable chair with a table, with giant windows, and not being jostled around in the back of a minivan.

Don't forget all the attractive women and hipster-compatible snacks featured in the video! I'd be interesting in learning about Leap's program to keep flirtatious models aboard every operating bus, as the video seems to make that a primary selling point.

I wouldn't mind