131–138 of 138 posts
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Do you think it is illegal or unethical for the CIA to just explore these capabilities, or to develop them and use them only in a targeted way, subject to appropriate oversight?
Using "appropriate" and "oversight" in the same sentence is exactly what a smear campaign would be about.
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The USA has never needed a search warrant to conduct foreign intelligence. A search warrant requirement is a 4th amendment protection afforded to US citizens. Foreign intelligence does not require courts unless you're trying to get foreign information from US companies (like the PRISM program and the FISA courts). The FBI (who is responsible for all intelligence conducted in the USA, against foreigners or Americans)…
I'm fine with the legality foreign intelligence (even if I'm not sure it's the best policy). But what does that have to do with anything? The Snowden disclosures show that they're doing far, far, more: essentially indiscriminant eavesdropping of every possible form of domestic communication.
The point the original commentor was trying to make is that this type of work is much more preferable to the mass collection that you're referring to from the Snowden documents.
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I'm not a Judge, I'm not even a lawyer (trained in the magical ways of USA law), but I doubt it's unethical for anyone to just explore the possible ways to subvert iOS or whatever. It might be illegal to explore those possibilities, if you're not one of the insiders (there's a difference in how David Petraeus was prosecuted, vs how Thomas Drake was prosecuted). Trying any particular method of subversion might end up…
If I understand correctly, you believe that the entire CIA as it currently exists is unethical and illegal. That may be a defensible position but it's an obstacle to discussing any specific action: how could you then support any action by the CIA? If the CIA shouldn't do anything then of course they shouldn't do this .
The CIA, as it appears now, does a huge number of unethical and apparently illegal things. It appears to be beyond oversight or control. I do find it really hard to support any action by them, just as I would find it hard to support FSB or MI6 actions. The CIA appears to be a threat to civil liberties and representative democracy in the US itself right now.
But you're falling into a rhetorical trap: just because coffee is hot, you don't wait until the coffee is cold to drink it. You can judge relative degrees of hot, just as we can judge relative degrees of unethicality. It's pretty darn bad to assassinate US citizens without due process, and I'd say due process in public, whether the citizen is abroad or on homeland soil. It's pretty darn bad to torture anyone. It's less bad to attempt to crack iOS to spy on people, and it would be even less wrong to explore the exploitability of iOS. The latter may not be wrong at all. It's completely OK to analyze open source intelligence.
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Although as it is, I'm very hesitant to even level criticism at the CIA on HN. I'm by no means an important person, but from what we've learned I don't even want to register on the radar of these entities. I understand where you're coming from, and clearly it's an individual choice, based on one's judgment of risk vs. reward. But let me add that when people choose that position, it just makes it that much easier for…
nothing bad has happened to me as a result How can you be certain? How many really successful job interviews have you had since you started your one-person campaign, where the hiring company inexplicably dropped you like a hot potato? Do you regularly check your credit rating to see if weird stuff is showing up? Have your bicycle tires quit holding pressure? I ask the last question because East Germany's Stasi did th…
Well, that's a fair point, so maybe I should say "nothing overt and noticeable has happened as a result." Beyond that, I could speculate about really subtle stuff, but that strikes me as a sure road to a level of paranoia that I don't want to engage in.
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nothing bad has happened to me as a result How can you be certain? How many really successful job interviews have you had since you started your one-person campaign, where the hiring company inexplicably dropped you like a hot potato? Do you regularly check your credit rating to see if weird stuff is showing up? Have your bicycle tires quit holding pressure? I ask the last question because East Germany's Stasi did th…
How can you be certain? How many really successful job interviews have you had since you started your one-person campaign, where the hiring company inexplicably dropped you like a hot potato? Do you regularly check your credit rating to see if weird stuff is showing up? Have your bicycle tires quit holding pressure? Well, that's a fair point, so maybe I should say "nothing overt and noticeable has happened as a resul…
Three years ago, almost everyone laughed at folks who claimed the NSA was watching everyone. Now, it's an article of faith, and there's some evidence that people have changed behavior because of that faith.
Any sufficiently advanced level of precaution is indistinguishable from paranoia. That East German activist was probably a little puzzled by flat bicycle tires, but probably shrugged it off. What are we all shrugging off today? Stock market weirdness? Oh, that's just HFT, right?
It's known that folks profited off of "top secret" CIA-led coups in the 1950s (http://tuvalu.santafe.edu/~snaidu/papers/coups.pdf), so it's not out of the realm of reason to look at the stock market today to see if the current "intelligence community" is profiting.
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My next phone is going to be an Android that enables me to completely replace its firmware binary. I'm not aware of a single (modern) phone where you can replace the firmware of the baseband with something open source.
Openmoko Neo Freerunner. Might fall a bit outside of "modern" category though (and of course, operating GSM baseband processor with altered firmware on public networks is illegal)
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I'm fine with the legality foreign intelligence (even if I'm not sure it's the best policy). But what does that have to do with anything? The Snowden disclosures show that they're doing far, far, more: essentially indiscriminant eavesdropping of every possible form of domestic communication.
My point is that you were arguing against targeted collection. Going after individual devices is a scoped and precision form of intelligence collection. You were saying that this type of intelligence isn't targeted and was instead insisting they should have to get a warrant. The point the original commentor was trying to make is that this type of work is much more preferable to the mass collection that you're referri…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can you be certain? How many really successful job interviews have you had since you started your one-person campaign, where the hiring company inexplicably dropped you like a hot potato? Do you regularly check your credit rating to see if weird stuff is showing up? Have your bicycle tires quit holding pressure? Well, that's a fair point, so maybe I should say "nothing overt and noticeable has happened as a resul…
What level of paranoia is too paranoid, and why? Three years ago, almost everyone laughed at folks who claimed the NSA was watching everyone. Now, it's an article of faith, and there's some evidence that people have changed behavior because of that faith. Any sufficiently advanced level of precaution is indistinguishable from paranoia. That East German activist was probably a little puzzled by flat bicycle tires, but…
That's a good question. Why are you asking? Who do you work for? What are you going to do with this information?!??
Just kidding... it is a good question, and I don't have a perfect answer. I guess I'd say the level of paranoia is too much when you reach the point of diminishing returns... that is, when it turns out that, even if you're right, knowing that doesn't help you because there's nothing you can do about it.
So, maybe an NSA agent sneaks into my parking lot every night and lets a few pounds of air out of my right rear tire. I can't prove that doesn't happen. But what am I going to do, camp out in my truck all night with my pistol at hand, hoping to catch the guy in the act? Not practical. Hire a private security guard? Not practical either. Etc., etc.