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The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

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Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#81

Post by mindslight »

p01926 wrote: post #15

How much longer can this continue? We have American agencies attacking American companies "because terrorism". It's been 13 years since our trauma, maybe now's the time to remove the razor blade from our wrists, look ourselves in the mirror and just carry on. Bad stuff is always going to be in our future — stuff that will increasingly appear preventable between the Internet and a lot of hindsight — but our current so…

> It's been 13 years since our trauma

13 years since the latest trauma. The federal government and its propaganda broadcasters have been dwelling on the specter of "terrorism" a lot longer than that. Watch media from before 11SEP2001 and you'll remember the same disproportionate focus and overreaction for many other events.

This machine is much more than a decade old. We're just starting to notice the bubbles at the bottom of the pot.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#82

Post by mindcrime »

ripb wrote: post #75
Zelphyr wrote: post #64

As many have noted, this does need to stop but it won't. And the problem lies squarely with you and me. Try this experiment: Ask a group of 5-10 people around you to raise their hands if they've been pissed off at any branch or level of their government. Then ask them to keep their hands up if they've contacted their representatives about that issue. Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone…

>Will you join me? I wonder how many people are genuinely afraid of raising their own profile in such a way. I'm not American, but I would certainly be partaking in any political action against the actions being discussed here. Although as it is, I'm very hesitant to even level criticism at the CIA on HN. I'm by no means an important person, but from what we've learned I don't even want to register on the radar of th…

Although as it is, I'm very hesitant to even level criticism at the CIA on HN. I'm by no means an important person, but from what we've learned I don't even want to register on the radar of these entities.

I understand where you're coming from, and clearly it's an individual choice, based on one's judgment of risk vs. reward. But let me add that when people choose that position, it just makes it that much easier for these guys to keep doing what they're doing, and getting away with it.

FWIW, I routinely criticize the CIA, NSA, etc. here, on Twitter, on Facebook, etc., using hashtags like #fuckthecia, #fuckthensa, etc. and nothing bad has happened to me as a result.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#83

Post by appleflaxen »

exelius wrote: post #55
p01926 wrote: post #15

How much longer can this continue? We have American agencies attacking American companies "because terrorism". It's been 13 years since our trauma, maybe now's the time to remove the razor blade from our wrists, look ourselves in the mirror and just carry on. Bad stuff is always going to be in our future — stuff that will increasingly appear preventable between the Internet and a lot of hindsight — but our current so…

I'm actually somewhat torn on this. While I'm against mass surveillance, I think that targeted surveillance can be a good thing. By nature of it being targeted, it is expensive to use on more people than necessary. The kind of spying the CIA would enable through compromising Apple secrets would be restricted to high-value targets if for no other reason than to ensure none of their targets knew they had that capabilit…

Targeted surveillance... like a search warrant?

Somehow we have been doing fine under the constitution for 200 years. Now a dozen men kamikaze a building, and we have to take away everyone's freedom in order to protect them?

F that. Police and the executive branch are just being lazy. Get off your ass, do some human intelligence, investigate leads, and get a warrant if you have probable cause. Otherwise, get the hell out of my email.

When the chances of being killed by police are 55x higher than being killed by a terrorist (or whatever the recent number was) and we want to give the State more power, we are fools.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#84

Post by mindcrime »

jkestner wrote: post #78
Intermernet wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That of course, depends on the strength of said CEO's principles. This would be, of course, one of the hardest tests of professional principles you could imagine a CEO going through. I personally think Mr Cook would be a good candidate for passing this test, as he seems to have a track record for standing up for what he believes in. I also have a feeling that the US government would think twice before taking on the A…

It's a little discomforting that we're hoping that corporations, presumably guided by a profit motive, will defend us against the government formed for the people (though more heavily influenced by other corporations). Even if Apple is trustworthy for a company, I'm not going to enjoy the future in which we pick our favorite companies to enact policy. Now, this is obviously happening to Google, et al, as well, so a j…

Nothing wrong with "profit motive". Remember:

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. ~~ Adam Smith

That said, I'd personally like to see less power aggregated into the hands of both governments and big mega-corporations. But the big difference between the two, to my mind, is that governments have a near monopoly on "legitimate" use of force, and have lots of men with guns, tanks, bombers, nukes, etc. at their disposal. Corporations mostly lack those things, except to the extent that they collude with the governments.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#85

Post by tomjen3 »

Zelphyr wrote: post #64

As many have noted, this does need to stop but it won't. And the problem lies squarely with you and me. Try this experiment: Ask a group of 5-10 people around you to raise their hands if they've been pissed off at any branch or level of their government. Then ask them to keep their hands up if they've contacted their representatives about that issue. Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone…

I wish I could believe that letter writing would actually make a difference, but at this point you need either an army or billions of dollars to make them listen.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#86

Post by happyscrappy »

ripb wrote: post #75
Zelphyr wrote: post #64

As many have noted, this does need to stop but it won't. And the problem lies squarely with you and me. Try this experiment: Ask a group of 5-10 people around you to raise their hands if they've been pissed off at any branch or level of their government. Then ask them to keep their hands up if they've contacted their representatives about that issue. Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone…

>Will you join me? I wonder how many people are genuinely afraid of raising their own profile in such a way. I'm not American, but I would certainly be partaking in any political action against the actions being discussed here. Although as it is, I'm very hesitant to even level criticism at the CIA on HN. I'm by no means an important person, but from what we've learned I don't even want to register on the radar of th…

But that is the exciting part, pretending that the CIA is concerned about you, or even knows that you exist.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#87

Post by mmcru »

Zelphyr wrote: post #64

As many have noted, this does need to stop but it won't. And the problem lies squarely with you and me. Try this experiment: Ask a group of 5-10 people around you to raise their hands if they've been pissed off at any branch or level of their government. Then ask them to keep their hands up if they've contacted their representatives about that issue. Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone…

>Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone or written (not email) letter.

why should we have to use the phone, or a paper letter, when email is as good, or even better?

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#88

Post by xnull6guest »

Zelphyr wrote: post #64

As many have noted, this does need to stop but it won't. And the problem lies squarely with you and me. Try this experiment: Ask a group of 5-10 people around you to raise their hands if they've been pissed off at any branch or level of their government. Then ask them to keep their hands up if they've contacted their representatives about that issue. Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone…

Look at the grassroots, bipartisan, loud and successful cry from the public not to enter Syria.

How many months did that work?

It is true that the system must represent the people. If and when it does not - whose fault is it? It can not be the people. We don't design people. We design a system to conform to the people, to communicate with them and to represent them.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#89

Post by Zelphyr »

mmcru wrote: post #87
Zelphyr wrote: post #64

As many have noted, this does need to stop but it won't. And the problem lies squarely with you and me. Try this experiment: Ask a group of 5-10 people around you to raise their hands if they've been pissed off at any branch or level of their government. Then ask them to keep their hands up if they've contacted their representatives about that issue. Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone…

>Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone or written (not email) letter. why should we have to use the phone, or a paper letter, when email is as good, or even better?

Because email is almost too easy. When you take the time to call or write them a letter you're letting them know that you're serious.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets

#90

Post by Zelphyr »

tomjen3 wrote: post #85
Zelphyr wrote: post #64

As many have noted, this does need to stop but it won't. And the problem lies squarely with you and me. Try this experiment: Ask a group of 5-10 people around you to raise their hands if they've been pissed off at any branch or level of their government. Then ask them to keep their hands up if they've contacted their representatives about that issue. Finally, ask them if the method of contact they used was the phone…

I wish I could believe that letter writing would actually make a difference, but at this point you need either an army or billions of dollars to make them listen.

Why do you think they're spending all their time raising money? So they can campaign to YOU! Obviously it can make a difference if people get involved.

Look; Its going to be hard. Its going to take a long time. So? Isn't it worth it?

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