Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen? • Hacker News Board

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#111

Post by methehack » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

ditonal wrote: post #16

You know, I'm all about being laid back and rejecting traditional corporate culture, because you can be serious without a suit. But you still need the "be serious" part, which somehow got lost between all the ping pong tables and beer on tap. I actually think a big chunk of the industry encourages unprofessionalism, because professionals do really obnoxious things like negotiate compensation. I really hope that the t…

Surely we can find a middle ground between ping pong and unzipped trousers. The boundaries are just not that complicated.

I'm all for encouraging women in tech and executive positions, but we shouldn't need women to tell us this is wrong or to police our behavior.

I hope none of that sounds too much like disagreement. I think we're mostly in alignment, except perhaps the suggestion that with a preponderance of men in executive positions and on boards this kind of behavior is inevitable. I have to believe that men can do better on their own if they want to, however much the help from women is welcome.

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#112

Post by ditonal » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #89

ditonal wrote: post #16

You know, I'm all about being laid back and rejecting traditional corporate culture, because you can be serious without a suit. But you still need the "be serious" part, which somehow got lost between all the ping pong tables and beer on tap. I actually think a big chunk of the industry encourages unprofessionalism, because professionals do really obnoxious things like negotiate compensation. I really hope that the t…

> I actually think a big chunk of the industry encourages unprofessionalism, because professionals do really obnoxious things like negotiate compensation. I don't approve of this situation, but I also don't buy your general argument (especially for things like ping pong tables and beer on tap). You seem to be referring to "professionalism" as some concrete normative standard, but in reality, what is considered "profe…

You are misunderstanding my point. I am fine with ping-pong tables and beer on tap, if they come with professionalism, where professionalism includes things like not sexually harassing women. Alcohol especially needs to be handled with care, and encouraging employees to have more than one drink is downright irresponsible. My point was that there is a contingent of business-types whose gameplan is to use the fun stuff as an excuse to drop professionalism, as in, why should you ask for a raise when you're having so much fun here? It's one big party!

The reason I say this is that I was recently job interviewing and I had one company that acted like this, and even brought me into a Friday happy hour as part of the interview process, where a bunch of young males were playing beer pong. First of all, how is that not a hostile environment for a woman? Secondly, I didn't want to drink, so was I supposed to look like I was no fun or bend my principles? Finally, when I complained to the recruiter, I was told they _only_ did that for engineers, and it was clear to me that it was a general strategy of indoctrination to avoid paying market rate, because it was all fun and games until we started talking compensation. And the company I most recently worked with before was more or less the same, the startup industry is filled with companies exactly like this.

We have a culture of brogrammers because the VCs create it to avoid paying engineers. And if you think programmers are all men, take a look at the VC and senior management gender diversity sometime.

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#113

Post by eli » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

beenpoor wrote: post #62

eli wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR exists for addressing problems like this. You absolutely should talk to them. I don't think it will "ruin his life" but whatever action is taken (if any) is ultimately up to his bosses. This is unacceptable behavior and if no one ever says anything about it, there's no reason to think it won't continue.

After some thought, I agree HR should be involved to caution him. As for ruining his life, it feels like a stretch - but imagine, he is publicly outed (with this much attention, it's possible). People have their pitchforks out - so I know this viewpoint will be downvoted. But it is best if she brings this issue with HR and deal with it internally with the company.

Best case scenario is that the interviewer learns from this mistake.

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#114

Post by beeworker » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

woof wrote: post #45

I don't see the drama, but then again I'm a guy (40+). If he just waited a few weeks with that second mail, we could hardly fault him for being unprofessional could we? I don't believe she would have gotten then job with another interviewer (the "more experience" part sounds plausible). And if she was a really interesting candidate, another tech screen or phone interview would be natural. I'd tell any friend to say "…

> (If he's that creepy, he'd get her the job and hit on her then)

This may not be creepy so much as the optimal strategy for avoiding internet outrage if she rejects your advances... Does everyone here seriously have no idea how much office hooking up goes on in the world, or is it only okay if the date is asked for after work hours on the elevator?

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#115

Post by beenpoor » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #85

Archio wrote: post #19

What the fuck? How does this shit happen? How on earth does someone, male or female, get into such a state that they think it is appropriate to do something like this in a professional setting? Can someone explain to me how this works? I'm male in a male-dominated industry, and of course I don't give a damn what people look like and treat everyone with respect. The problem is, I don't believe a single one of my male…

And yet we see people on HN, in this thread, defend the behaviour. Edit: I'm not; I think the guy was a fucking idiot and I support anything that makes it easier for people to whistleblow creeps.

#DanBC: Even those with other viewpoints, are not defending his behaviour. It is more to do with what next ? This is not a case of harassment as far as I can tell - but unethical and unprofessional behaviour and needs to be condoned for sure. But stretching it to a borderline harassment case is what needs to be avoided (atleast not until full facts are known).

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#116

Post by genofon » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

ddoolin wrote: post #77

genofon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't believe she would have gotten then job with another interviewer (the "more experience" part sounds plausible). please don't speculate, as she said if they were looking for "more experience" why would he interviewed her in the first place? He also admitted that her cv was interesting >(If he's that creepy, he'd get her the job and hit on her then) hitting on a co-worker is much more complicated than hitting o…

You're speculating in the same breath with which you say not to speculate. We don't know why they interviewed her, and frankly we interview people fairly often that don't have the requisite experience on paper because we know it often has little to do with what's on the paper, a lesson HN readers are VERY familiar with (the whole "meritocracy" thing).

based on the information we have he didn't do anything to test her experience.

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#117

Post by genofon » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

ddoolin wrote: post #77

genofon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't believe she would have gotten then job with another interviewer (the "more experience" part sounds plausible). please don't speculate, as she said if they were looking for "more experience" why would he interviewed her in the first place? He also admitted that her cv was interesting >(If he's that creepy, he'd get her the job and hit on her then) hitting on a co-worker is much more complicated than hitting o…

You're speculating in the same breath with which you say not to speculate. We don't know why they interviewed her, and frankly we interview people fairly often that don't have the requisite experience on paper because we know it often has little to do with what's on the paper, a lesson HN readers are VERY familiar with (the whole "meritocracy" thing).

based on the information we have he didn't do anything to test her experience.

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#118

Post by jackmaney » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:55 PM UTC

beeworker wrote: post #95

jackmaney wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he needs to face consequences for his behavior. He's a massive liability to his company.

What if he's a 10x engineer? He's a massive PR liability because of our insane outrage culture, but he's a very valuable asset for, you know, his actual job.

I don't give a fuck if he's a 10,000x engineer or a 10e100x engineer. If his idiocy destroys his company, then it doesn't matter. Any number multiplied by zero is zero.

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#119

Post by eli » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

al45tair wrote: post #69

ihsw wrote: post #5

* Say no. * Forward copies of emails to the company's leadership/HR department. * Keep printed copies of the emails handy in case he decides to retaliate with lawyers. * Keep your own legal counsel on speed-dial. * Move on with your life. There's not much you can do from a legal standpoint, with regards to grievance/redress. Escalating the situation through contacting his boss/HR carries a risk, even though you have…

What’s wrong with just telling him it’s inappropriate and that the answer is no?

Because the OP is not in a position to help him understand why this is inappropriate behavior or to see that it is sufficiently addressed. Personally, I would not want to have any further contact with someone who treated me like that.

Re: Best way to handle interviewer asking me out on a date after tech screen?

#120

Post by beeworker » Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #105

beeworker wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if he's a 10x engineer? He's a massive PR liability because of our insane outrage culture, but he's a very valuable asset for, you know, his actual job.

What if he scares off 10 1x engineers because he's poisonous? Or what if he scares off another 10x engineer who happens to be a woman? Keeping toxic people around is not usually going to pay off, regardless of "outrage culture" (which is an odd way of describing a culture that punishes abuse of power).

What if he's a 0.5x engineer and firing him would be good anyway? I was merely illustrating that just because someone acts in an outrageous way doesn't make them a liability, net. There's no rule saying effective companies must be filled with saints, even if that would be nice.