[deleted]
“Just remove the duck” (2013)
251–260 of 347 posts
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#252Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-s…
I think you're missing the point. The point here is that some PMs feel that if they're not demanding changes, they are not necessary / not doing their job / etc. If there's nothing wrong with the completed work, such a PM will demand unnecessary changes, in order to justify themselves. The duck is a passive counter to the PM's pathological behaviour: ensure there's always some easily-fixed fault, so the PM can feel l…
The problem is that it's not uncommon for a dev/designer/etc. to not understand some of the reasoning for why a PM is requesting changes be made. We all snicker at the incompetent PM who just wants to "make their mark" on a project, but very often the demand that may appear that way is motivated by entirely legitimate concerns. (And yes, the PM should bring the dev along with them, etc.) If you "add a duck" and the PM ends up missing the legitimate concerns as a result, everyone loses.
The add-a-duck attitude fundamentally assumes that the dev/designer knows what's best for the end product and the customer, and while that happens some of the time, the reason the PM role exists in the first place is because that's not always true. :)
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another version I've heard of this is with film censorship - apparently when Hitchcock made Psycho , the film censor (I think in the UK - the BBFC) wouldn't give the film a certificate because it was too extreme for the era - too much nudity, too much violence - and suggested a few cuts to just trim back some of the offending shots. Hitchock said of course he would, took the film back, and sat on it for a couple of w…
Matt Parker and Trey Stone, the creators of South Park, did the exact same thing when making Bigger, Longer, and Uncut . Put completely ridiculous over-the-top NC-17 stuff in there, get it rejected for those parts, and keep the iffy stuff.
I thought that was Team America, World Police.
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or, a more likely and less idiotically cynical explanation is that a man famous for having vision, aesthetic sense and incessant drive for excellence that enabled him to completely revolutionize multiple technology industries ACTUALLY had vision and a sense of aesthetics.
Idiotically cynical? You're getting oddly personal over this. A 'sense of aesthetics' doesn't mean you know the objectively right size to fit the very very different hand sizes of a million people down to the sub-millimeter level.
Not at all personal on my side; hell, the story is probably apocryphal.
I never said he was right or that I agreed with him, in fact I hate Apple Mice and actually find them too small. No idea where you are even getting that.
My point is that Steve Jobs was renowned for an obsessive, manic attention to exactly these kinds of detail and usually knew what he wanted and would blow up when he didn't get it; so it takes a special kind of person to dodge Occam's razor and go looking for some other explanation.
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#255There's a certain tone in this article that bothers me a bit.
At least in software engineering, the idea of reviews is to find errors in code or design how ever small they are. When inspecting any code, we almost always find at least something, regardless of the level of quality. It's not about being fair, it's not personal, and it probably isn't even dependent on the reviewers personality. It's just that when the goal is to find deviations, that's what happens. It's just a process. The errors may be small or big, it doesn't matter, we just need to find them.
Some inexperienced developers often find the code review process intimidating and unfair. They take it personally. That's a wrong attitude.
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#256This is also great parenting advice. Give your kid the feeling of having chosen to eat their vegetables, and they'll devour an entire plate of them.
Can you please elaborate a bit more?
My wife and I do something similar. We give our daughter (she's almost three) a few choices with most anything that involves a decision.
A trivial example would be that if we're eating something that is traditionally a finger food and she wants to use a fork. We'll respond "You can use your right hand or left hand, it's up to you." and it avoids the confrontation completely because she gets to decide. She chooses a hand and life goes on.
Another example is sitting in her chair at the table. She'll normally ignore me when I ask her to climb in her chair but the moment I put a decision before her of getting in the chair on her own or I'll do it for her she hops right up.
It becomes second nature after a while and for us it's been a lot less stress and a time saver.
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#257I hate this story. I think it's important to differentiate between people who have the right knowledge to request a change and those that think they have the right solely because of seniority; but it's also rather disrespectful to 'cheat' and make fake changes just to make the someone happy. No-one deserves to be treated like a 'mark' for our tricks. My experience has been that being honest, polite and knowledgeable…
I'm glad I'm not the only one who found this approach childish. Adding "ducks" has one of two outcomes:
-Best case: Someone sees your duck and you've all wasted time adding and then removing it. -Worst case: No one notices your duck, or maybe even likes your duck. You now have a sub-par creation.
Instead, try communicating. If you think a change to your work is bad, say so. You might even learn something about a manager/PM's reasons for adding and removing things. They might learn something from you if you communicate your reasoning well. If your managers aren't open to discussing projects, find a different job.
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#258There's a certain tone in this article that bothers me a bit. At least in software engineering, the idea of reviews is to find errors in code or design how ever small they are. When inspecting any code, we almost always find at least something, regardless of the level of quality. It's not about being fair, it's not personal, and it probably isn't even dependent on the reviewers personality. It's just that when the go…
About a year ago I had the misfortune of working with a program manager. He asked me to create a PowerPoint presentation on something totally unimportant and irrelevant. After failing to explain this to him, I decided to accommodate him figuring that he would become more reasonable once he knew a bit more.
After emailing him the presentation, he called and asked me to switch the 2nd and 3rd bullet on one of the slides and then send him the revision. Our relationship went downhill from there. Finally I had no choice but to marginalize him.
I don't think the author of the article had code reviews in mind; she's alluding to this sort of nonsense when you sense her negative tone.
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Idiotically cynical? You're getting oddly personal over this. A 'sense of aesthetics' doesn't mean you know the objectively right size to fit the very very different hand sizes of a million people down to the sub-millimeter level.
Not at all personal on my side; hell, the story is probably apocryphal. I never said he was right or that I agreed with him, in fact I hate Apple Mice and actually find them too small. No idea where you are even getting that. My point is that Steve Jobs was renowned for an obsessive, manic attention to exactly these kinds of detail and usually knew what he wanted and would blow up when he didn't get it; so it takes a…
>Not at all personal on my side; hell, the story is probably apocryphal.
You called dchichkov's argument "idiotically cynical". That's a personal attack, even if you didn't mean it that way.
>I never said he was right or that I agreed with him, in fact I hate Apple Mice and actually find them too small. No idea where you are even getting that.
When you say "completely revolutionize multiple technology industries ACTUALLY had vision and a sense of aesthetics" in response to a comment that suggested he was reading expressions, that very heavily implies that Steve was correct. You need to work on wording if you have "no idea" how I got that impression.
>a special kind of person
This sounds like a personal insult again.
I don't know why you're so vehemently against the idea.
Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)
#260This is also great parenting advice. Give your kid the feeling of having chosen to eat their vegetables, and they'll devour an entire plate of them.
Agreed. Our son always "decides" what he's having for dinner and what to do during the weekends, for example. Only he decides by choosing between 2-3 options we've selected in advance to match what we want the outcome to be. Similarly it's always bedtime before his actual intended bedtime so he can negotiate some extra time. It avoids so many conflicts when he smugly believes he has gotten exactly what he wanted out…
sounds like elections in America