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“Just remove the duck” (2013)

rachelbythebay.com

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Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#161

Post by damoncali »

jimmaswell wrote: post #157
Flemlord wrote: post #152

Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-s…

This isn't meant to apply to managers who actually know what they're doing and don't always have to make a change just to look like they're contributing. If you're competent then the developers probably won't feel the need to do this.

AKA the Gunny Hartman doctrine: "If it wasn't for dickheads like you, there wouldn't be any thievery in this world, would there?"

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#162

Post by slapresta »

Flemlord wrote: post #152

Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-s…

If you interpret this to be about "avoiding criticism" instead of as a counter-reaction to meddling, clueless middle management eager to justify their job position at a cost on employee time and product quality, then you're likely to be part of the very problem ducks fix.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#163

Post by bgroins »

tfederman wrote: post #145

My company just doesn't have product or project managers and it's wonderful. Fewer meetings, no intermediaries, more agility. It could only work in practice, it could never work in theory.

As someone who is responsible for 10-15 concurrent IT projects across numerous teams, many of whom I don't manage, this sounds terrible. I think the "no PMO' approach may work for homogenous groups whose focus is one project, but for a large organization, effective project management is a must.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#164

Post by myth_buster »

ryandrake wrote: post #129
myth_buster wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the spot. "Just remove the duck" is a pattern not an anti-pattern. What it addresses is the urge of some supervisors to ask for some change just to show that they have done a thorough review, while the said change are actually detrimental to the product. > memory leaks, off-by-one errors, and mis-spelled variable names The above don't fall into the review comments that are being avoided as these ar…

No, I get the _intended_ meaning of the story, putting a decoy in for that meddlesome boss. But I think it can be interpreted both ways. For every manager out there who, out of hubris, needs to "leave their mark," you can find an artist or craftsman who, out of the same hubris, believes their work is beyond criticism.

I agree with your above comment while the previous comment was leaning towards one side.

> story was a condemnation of the artist, not the manager

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#165

Post by Nacraile »

Flemlord wrote: post #152

Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-s…

I think you're missing the point. The point here is that some PMs feel that if they're not demanding changes, they are not necessary / not doing their job / etc. If there's nothing wrong with the completed work, such a PM will demand unnecessary changes, in order to justify themselves.

The duck is a passive counter to the PM's pathological behaviour: ensure there's always some easily-fixed fault, so the PM can feel like they're doing something, without forcing unnecessary high-effort changes. Since the duck is obviously bad and easily removed, it shouldn't prevent the PM from noticing real issues, or detract from fixing real issues.

If you feel the need to add ducks, the real problem is that you have a bad PM. But if you're a dev and have no good way to solve the real problem...

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#166

Post by donuteaters »

Flemlord wrote: post #152

Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-s…

There are plenty of incompetent managers and consultants who justify their existence by demanding pointless changes. If one of your subordinates is putting obvious ducks in the product, perhaps you should reflect and decide if you have a history of micromanaging.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#167

Post by jimmaswell »

wambotron wrote: post #20

I worked at a deli during college, and people did this same type of thing on slices. By default, I'd always pick a pretty thin slice. Most people really like thinly sliced meats. The first thing you do is slice once and show them the slice, making sure it fits what they wanted. 99% of the time, people would say "thinner," I would pretend to fiddle with the knob, slice the same thickness, and they'd say "perfect!" I t…

>Most people really like thinly sliced meats

Why would you want thinly sliced meat? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#168

Post by sytse »

sxp wrote: post #120
TallGuyShort wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a huge Steve Jobs fan, but I had a professor who had worked as a designer under Steve Jobs and tried something similar. Steve insisted that a new mouse needed to be just a fraction of a millimetre slimmer so a person's palm was lower and closer to the work surface. They figured he was being an unreasonable "delicate genius" and returned a few days later with the identical mouse and claimed they had reworked it to…

There is a similar story about Larry Page when Gmail was being developed: Before Google launched Gmail in 2004, its creator, Paul Buchheit, brought it to Page’s open cubicle office for a review. As Buchheit called the program up on Page’s computer, the boss made a face. “It’s too slow,” Page said. Buchheit disagreed. It was loading just fine, he said. No, Page insisted. It had taken a full 600 milliseconds for the pa…

Great story, I hope that Larry loads drive.google.com sometime this week and orders that the loading time has to improve as well

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#169

Post by dilap »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #147
sxp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a similar story about Larry Page when Gmail was being developed: Before Google launched Gmail in 2004, its creator, Paul Buchheit, brought it to Page’s open cubicle office for a review. As Buchheit called the program up on Page’s computer, the boss made a face. “It’s too slow,” Page said. Buchheit disagreed. It was loading just fine, he said. No, Page insisted. It had taken a full 600 milliseconds for the pa…

The thing is, 600 milliseconds is a number that comes up often. You don't have to be precise to the milliseconds, you only have to be able to recognize 100 milliseconds, 500 milliseconds and 1000 milliseconds. The rest is guessing work. It's the same thing with the width of elements on the web. Know what 10px is, and you will be able to guess anything.

I used to play a racing game called Trackmania; there was no collision, but it was really competitive in that you'd be racing simultaneously networked w/ other players. You could definitely tell when you completed the lab in a time that was say 10ms behind a different time. 600 milliseconds, +- say 50ms, is pretty recognizable.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#170

Post by mhurron »

LanceH wrote: post #117
agarden wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this anecdote might help explain Jobs's success. There is a tendency when one is running or developing a product to convince yourself that your efforts are producing a genuinely good product that your customers will like. Frequently that isn't true, and the product is rightly trashed by the outsiders. The thing is, the people on the inside would have trashed it too if they had not been insiders. Jobs seems to…

He really nailed it with the mouse.

Yep, this thing was beautiful

http://cdn.mactrast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2012-11-2...

Apples design is hit and miss like everyone else.

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