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“Just remove the duck” (2013)

rachelbythebay.com

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Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#151

Post by JonnieCache »

inthewoods wrote: post #149
JonnieCache wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are countless fables about record company executives dropping by the mastering studio to hear the new hit in its finished form. They'd inevitably make some ill-posed request, of the familiar "it needs to pop more!" variety. The wily engineer directs them towards a large and important looking knob, telling them that they are free to dial in as much "pop" as they think the track needs. Of course, they screw up th…

So right on about doing the same thing by accident. Early in my life, I programmed synths in a studio - and I practiced a variation on this. I would listen to what sound they wanted, then I would play them something that was likely pretty close. They they would complain about it not being quite right, so I would play 3 or 4 different sounds that I knew were completely wrong, then return to the first sound. To which t…

>So right on about doing the same thing by accident.

There is nothing that can describe the mixture of confusion, shame, and artistic/technical self-doubt that you feel upon realising that the compressor you just spent half an hour lovingly tweaking, to seemingly great effect, is bypassed.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#152

Post by Flemlord »

Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-sized mistakes.

If you are a developer who takes this approach, you may want to consider whether the short-term benefit of avoiding criticism is worth the long-term downside of having me think you are incompetent.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#154

Post by pluma »

acdha wrote: post #125
throwawayaway wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah it's definitely not one for the rooftops with a megaphone anyway.

This is also a good time for many of us to work on social skills: most people like getting help with a second language as long as it's not putting them on the spot & if you have a good relationship with someone you can bring it up at the right time more along the lines of “Isn't English so absurdly arbitrary?” than something to be defensive about.

I think this is being unnecessarily non-confrontational. As long as you explain why the term is wrong or sub-optimal and what it should be called instead, I can't see how any serious programmers should take offence.

Consider it this way: natively speaking English means you have domain knowledge, sharing that domain knowledge should feel no different from pointing out mistakes in other domains. If someone gets English wrong, that's no different from getting, say, VAT calculation wrong.

Maybe I'm just assuming everyone already handles mistakes in other domains with tact and respect.

Also, it's a matter of proportion. If a function name is extremely misleading that's different from a function name just using an awkward synonym, just as a broken piece of code is different from dodgy indentation. You'll want to fix either problem eventually, but the immediate repercussions are quite different (serious bug vs minor annoyance, basically).

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#155

Post by bilbo0s »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #147
sxp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a similar story about Larry Page when Gmail was being developed: Before Google launched Gmail in 2004, its creator, Paul Buchheit, brought it to Page’s open cubicle office for a review. As Buchheit called the program up on Page’s computer, the boss made a face. “It’s too slow,” Page said. Buchheit disagreed. It was loading just fine, he said. No, Page insisted. It had taken a full 600 milliseconds for the pa…

The thing is, 600 milliseconds is a number that comes up often. You don't have to be precise to the milliseconds, you only have to be able to recognize 100 milliseconds, 500 milliseconds and 1000 milliseconds. The rest is guessing work. It's the same thing with the width of elements on the web. Know what 10px is, and you will be able to guess anything.

Well... I would agree that the Page story is not that impressive. Obviously, most people from the video game generation would be sensitive to a time period greater than 500 milliseconds.

But that misses the point of the Jobs story. Some people really do have sensitivity to things that the vast majority of others have trouble perceiving. Most people would have trouble perceiving a millimeter difference in spatial dimension by touch.

Having said all of that... the likelihood that the Project Manager in the original story... or even that the Project Manager in your workplace for that matter... is the maven that Steve Jobs was is remote in the extreme.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#156

Post by balabaster »

ph0rque wrote: post #100
mvdwoord wrote: post #8

A story from the time recounts that Piero Soderino, the head of the powerful Florentine Republic, even told the famously irascible Michelangelo that David's nose was much too large. Michelangelo then hid some marble dust in his hand, climbed back up his ladder and pretended to do some more "chiseling" on the offending proboscis. While he did so, he let some marble dust fall from his hand. The pompous Soderino was foo…

This is something I admit to doing while driving with my kids at times, when they ask to e.g. turn the volume of music up/down and I think it's just fine the way it is. I'll turn it down a few clicks, then turn it up to what it was before.

Works for dinner too... tell them you're having something they detest for dinner and then gradually dial it back to things that are less detestable and then cook what you were originally going to cook and they'll accept it without complaint :P

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#157

Post by jimmaswell »

Flemlord wrote: post #152

Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-s…

This isn't meant to apply to managers who actually know what they're doing and don't always have to make a change just to look like they're contributing. If you're competent then the developers probably won't feel the need to do this.

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#159

Post by [deleted] »

jimmaswell wrote: post #157
Flemlord wrote: post #152

Putting on my client/product manager hat for a moment, this is incredibly annoying. You are putting me in the position of either (a) fixing the obvious ducks and not looking closely at the real problems, or (b) having to micromanage you and scheduling another review to make further changes. Maybe you get your desired result (a), but my opinion of your work is going to be much lower since you are making obvious duck-s…

This isn't meant to apply to managers who actually know what they're doing and don't always have to make a change just to look like they're contributing. If you're competent then the developers probably won't feel the need to do this.

[deleted]

Re: “Just remove the duck” (2013)

#160

Post by Alex3917 »

danielweber wrote: post #78
madaxe_again wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like web development. If I had a penny for every time we're asked for more zazz, pop, pow, shazam, zing, shizzle, pizazz, "something", cowbell... I'd use them to bury the meddling fuckers who ask for this shit.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell "Could you make the design pop a bit more?"

I think the key line here is:

> I also don't know how to design websites based on someone else's feelings.

That's what design is, so if you're not doing that then you're probably not a designer.

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