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Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

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Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#111

Post by raincom »

tfg4k wrote: post #70
raincom wrote: post #6

You won't pass the fliters to get hired. There is a way to do it. First you need to show that u have worked for big companies; second, try to work as a contractor, which can help you gain real experience. No company wants to mentor anyone.

I have worked for large companies before. Defense Contractors and in Operations for very large retail organizations. Am working as a contractor now. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it!

pm me, i can tell u how Indians play the gay. You can play the same game these offshoring companies play to get a contract gig right away.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#112

Post by danellis »

cheetos wrote: post #8

There are three ways to play the game: 1. Play by the "rules": stockpile the degrees, certifications, awards, etc. that we all know are largely useless but are absolute requirements for signaling your way through a standard corporate job interview. If you are after a normal, boring, corporate American desk job (nothing wrong with this depending on your life situation) you must play the game by the rules. If you don't…

There's no sense in getting a college degree just for the sake of having it. They're expensive and take up a lot of time, and they're not needed to get into tech jobs. Yes, some companies will care about this, but many, many companies will not. They care about what you know and what you've shown you can do.

Leveraging connections, on the other hand, is a great idea. Most jobs are not actually advertised anywhere, and if you can use your connections well you can find yourself applying for jobs with very little competition.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#113

Post by danellis »

riskable wrote: post #71

This may seem way out in left field but: Do a background check on yourself. If a company does such a check and it comes back saying you're a serial murderer they will not tell you that's why you were turned down. Background checks are often horribly wrong or contain bullshit red flags like, "Claimed position: Developer; Actual position: Architect". Get enough of those and you'll be dropped for consideration. When I l…

> Do a background check on yourself.

Where would one do that?

> When I left an employer a few years ago I requested my employee record

Were they under any obligation to give it to you?

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#114

Post by ferrari8608 »

tfg4k wrote: post #45
ferrari8608 wrote: post #14

My answer isn't great, but it's relevant due to your experience being somewhat similar to my own. I'm currently working my first job in IT, for two years now, after having only fast food and retail jobs. How did I get here? It wasn't my college education (I'm a dropout, due to transportation and money issues at the time). College did play a big role, though. One of my instructors saw that talent you mentioned in me,…

Mind if I send you an email?

I don't mind.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#115

Post by danellis »

tfg4k wrote: post #48
atmosx wrote: post #24

I know it's not what you're looking for, but learning JS and a hot framework like React or Meteor will help you land a job in the IT sector in sooner or later IMHO. Good luck with everything.

Hey, no, thank you very much. I was looking at Angular earlier this morning. I played around with Node when it was new, dropped it because anything within reach at the time in my job market were for things like pulling cable, fixing people's computers for a small MSP, and that was about it. At least I have something to work on in the meantime. I started playing with JS and Python when I considered being a programmer.…

It sounds like you lack tenacity. Unless I'm completely misreading you, you're saying you started learning things to help you get into a web development job, but then gave them up because... you couldn't get a web development job yet? Why did you drop the thing that would put other jobs in reach?

> I stopped because everyone said Python (which is awesome) and I just had a rougher time learning it than JS.

Whatever you're learning, someone will come along and tell you that something else is better. Ignore them. The first programming language you learn is teaching you to program, which is far more important than which language it is. You're learning transferable skills that you'll take with you when you learn something else.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#116

Post by atmosx »

tfg4k wrote: post #48
atmosx wrote: post #24

I know it's not what you're looking for, but learning JS and a hot framework like React or Meteor will help you land a job in the IT sector in sooner or later IMHO. Good luck with everything.

Hey, no, thank you very much. I was looking at Angular earlier this morning. I played around with Node when it was new, dropped it because anything within reach at the time in my job market were for things like pulling cable, fixing people's computers for a small MSP, and that was about it. At least I have something to work on in the meantime. I started playing with JS and Python when I considered being a programmer.…

One thing is for sure and everyone here can testify this:

1. JavaScript is not a great language by any standard. 2. JavaScript is the most requested programming language today (just take a look at job postings!)

Going JS is like going for sure, RoR is heavily requested too, but not as much as JS. JS is like the lingua franca of the web and since most people don't even know that there are other protocols except from HTTP, if I was desperately looking for a job as a programmer I would try to learn JS as best as I can.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#117

Post by heleph »

tfg4k wrote: post #63
ChainsawSurgery wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you shouldn't have confidence in your abilities. And if that truly is the case, then I think it's a great quality to have. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person and not a loudmouth jackass. However, as the quote goes, "That's the problem with first impressions. You only get to make one." People tend to be on their guard when interacting with someone for th…

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

One thing that really helped me with resume writing is learning to think of it as advertising. You want to make it as easy for the person reading it to say yes to you as possible.

I'm involved with hiring pretty frequently and here are some things that help me: -don't bother listing every technology you've ever worked with. It's a waste of space. It doesn't give any context. Mention them in the context of your work history. - talk about the people stuff you were successful at as well as the technical stuff. - don't just say what you did, tell me why it mattered. For example "reduced build times from one hour to five minutes which enabled team to release twice a week rather than one a month"

One thing to remember when you are involved in the hiring process, particularly with technical people is they want to be able to say yes to you. Hiring probably isn't their main job and they have a hole in their team. If you are the right person for the job, it's a win for everyone involved.

Another thing that helps is having contacts that will let you know where opportunities are. The fantastic thing about having experience is you probably know a heap of people who can help. Getting involved with the local community around whatever area you're interested in can help you meet more people. I've also gotten jobs from being on related mailing lists and applying for positions that are posted.

If you're not sure your experienced is quite right, getting involved in open source is an option for building up experience and reputation. It means you can show people what you can do and if your work gets traction and if you contribute to somebody else's project it can be a way to meet more people in the right area.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#118

Post by rifung »

tfg4k wrote: post #101
rifung wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect your passion and enthusiasm, but you seem to lack patience. Seeing as you keep bringing up your financial situation as a barrier, why don't you take a job that's not necessarily the one you love, but one that will provide financial stability so that you can spend your other time learning about security related stuff? That will also give you time to apply to other companies and not have to settle for less th…

No, the financial situation is complex. It isn't about patience. Quick example would be having the opportunity four years ago to work for Rackspace as a Linux Admin but I couldn't afford to move to San Antonio on my own at that time. That's the kind of stuff I am talking about. And no, you are not making too many assumptions. It's my fault for writing such a sloppy OP.

If you got an offer from them, they wouldn't be willing to relocate you?

It seems like if that's the issue but you are getting offers then I imagine you should be able to negotiate your way in. That or you could just go into debt momentarily.

Even start ups fly people in for interviews; I can't imagine they'd have too much trouble relocating you. That is, if you're willing of course.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#119

Post by m3gatr0n »

Hi tfg4k, I am coming from Romania, so I know a little bit about geography problems and let's just say that on the old continent, coming from the Eastern is still a handicap. I also love IT security and I dedicated 1 year of my life to try to get in and do something. The biggest stupid thing that I could do. It's way to little and this industry is so closed, that you have absolutely no chance to make it on your own. It's impossible. In order to break something, you need to understand it and then exploit it's weakness. Because everything is so complex now, you're pretty much like a fish out of water.

If all you are saying is true and you are really good, your problem is not getting a job. Your problem is finding out what you want to be in the IT. Developer/consultant/tech support or what? This is what you should be asking yourself in the first place. After you know want you want to be, then go and find a technology THAT YOU LIKE, THAT MAKES YOU VALUABLE.

> What area or "discipline" in IT shows promise for a career? This is one of the biggest top 3 mistake in my opinion. What tomorrow is cool and trendy, tomorrow will because obsolete (e.g. Flash), so technology doesn't actually matter to be honest. One day it's a keyboard, tomorrow it's touchscreen and in 10 years there'll be mental commands. This makes no difference, because we built the whole 1/0 logic in order to help us in our day to day work in any way possible. So if you are serious about this, FIRST find out what you like, than prepare for it, practice it and the step you foot in the door. Regardless if you're going in for an internship or to be the manager, your goal is to get on that door and keep going in, day after day. If you're that good, they will promote you by default.

Cheer up and find something that you're good at, the reward will come by itself. The most important thing is to like what you are doing, the rest is history :)

PS: By the way, I ended up being a SAP Developer, after which I switched at being a SAP Consultant in Germany. I still keep a closed eye at the security field, but just as a hobby, nothing more.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#120

Post by sanityinc »

hluska wrote: post #105
tfg4k wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have considered all of this. Most likely, what few interviews or solicitations for resumes, then interviews that I have had have been from companies who are willing to overlook my crappy resume (again, I made it this far and never had to really write one before) to interview me. What happens after that is anyone's guess. I just do my best, follow the processes the company has in place and just haven't had any luck…

Here's some more feedback. Your description on your profile here isn't so good. It reads: about: 31 year old unemployed with 13 years experience. Trying (unsuccessfully) to break in to the IT Sec field. Been hacking and learning security in my free time since I was about sixteen. An enthusiast.. First, remove your age. I can't begin to tell you how unprofessional that makes you look. Second, the entire second sentenc…

Rewritten, not knowing anything more about you than the above:

- Enthusiastic self-taught hacker with 13 years of experience. Currently seeking work in the IT Sec field: drop me an email at xxx@xxx to find out how I can help you.

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