Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#51

Post by tfg4k » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #49

ChainsawSurgery wrote: post #16

I'm gonna venture a guess here, and there's a decent chance you're going to respond poorly to it and think I'm just being an asshole, or do some rationalization and throw my opinion away. But I promise: I'm not just trying to put you down. At least consider it. > I can't seem to get my foot in the door anywhere to do anything from level one help desk work to anything else. Maybe it's how you come across personally; w…

Or perhaps he was just establishing context so we could better answer his question? There's no reason to assume a personality defect because he was communicating honestly about the situation he finds himself in.

No, I found it helpful. It's good to know what other people get from the post. I was super nervous because it was my first OP and I hit this site daily for a few hours at least. My post was poorly written and I appreciate any criticism as well as any advice or even just busting my chops! Thanks for your input!

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#52

Post by dustingetz » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

people as talented as you say you are, do not end up needing to write this post. Just my opinion

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#53

Post by tfg4k » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:36 PM UTC

cheetos wrote: post #8

There are three ways to play the game: 1. Play by the "rules": stockpile the degrees, certifications, awards, etc. that we all know are largely useless but are absolute requirements for signaling your way through a standard corporate job interview. If you are after a normal, boring, corporate American desk job (nothing wrong with this depending on your life situation) you must play the game by the rules. If you don't…

I'm actually working on (and have been for about a year now) #3. But you're absolutely right. It's by far the toughest route.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#54

Post by tfg4k » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

grandalf wrote: post #35

Maybe offer to work for free for 2-4 weeks (10-20 hours per week) for someone you respect, with no expectation of a job, just the expectation of very candid feedback/coaching at the end of the time period. Getting your skillet where you can meaningfully add value in the first two weeks is not necessarily trivial.

That is a wonderful idea that hadn't occurred to me. Although I don't respect anyone in the Security field because I don't know anyone in the field. Will work for free though. Respect or not.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#55

Post by varelse » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

I have seen this situation before. It seems to be a particular fail mode for the typical tech company hiring filter. A lot of people, some of my co-workers included, screen for a very particular sort of cookie. When they don't get exactly the cookie they want, they reject.

To be fair to them, the number of flaming idiots that manage to get past HR phone screens these days is seemingly monotonically increasing, but along those lines, here's my question: if you're not even getting past HR phone screens (and these people frequently are keyword-driven dim bulbs IMO having suffered through some astoundingly inept phone screens that were a waste of an hour), what are you telling them? Or if it's not even getting that far, have you had someone look at your resume?

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#56

Post by ChainsawSurgery » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

tfg4k wrote: post #41

ChainsawSurgery wrote: post #16

I'm gonna venture a guess here, and there's a decent chance you're going to respond poorly to it and think I'm just being an asshole, or do some rationalization and throw my opinion away. But I promise: I'm not just trying to put you down. At least consider it. > I can't seem to get my foot in the door anywhere to do anything from level one help desk work to anything else. Maybe it's how you come across personally; w…

I feel like I should say this. Saying things like: > I always bluffed my way in to jobs I was completely unqualified for and pulled it off quite well are usually red flags for me, personality-wise. I have worked with people like the person you probably think I am because of how that came across. I was just trying to honestly express one of the few things that I do have going for me as opposed to just listing things t…

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you shouldn't have confidence in your abilities. And if that truly is the case, then I think it's a great quality to have. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person and not a loudmouth jackass.

However, as the quote goes, "That's the problem with first impressions. You only get to make one." People tend to be on their guard when interacting with someone for the first time - even if that interaction is just reading a cover letter. Things that your friends wouldn't blink an eye at can easily become reasons the hiring manager tosses out your resume, and unfortunately you rarely get a chance to explain yourself or even feedback that you did something wrong.

The best part is that fixing this doesn't involve a certification program, or spending more money, or anything like that. Maybe just have a couple people read over your cover letters or do mock interviews with you (not sure where you're getting stopped in the process, so can't give specifics there). Maybe try it with someone not super close to you (maybe a former co-worker?) who'll bring up something you're saying or doing that might seem innocuous but is raising alarms somewhere.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#57

Post by forloop » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

tfg4k wrote: post #40

AYBABTME wrote: post #34

Maybe I'm dumb but nobody who's hired me ever cared of my (lack of) degrees. All they cared about was proof that I could get stuff done, which is one of the purpose of my Github. AFAIK, talent is all I have, and I've never had a hard time finding jobs as a developer. And I learned and started writing code 4 years ago, so it's not like I'm a child prodigy or something. I'm just a dude who picked up programming a few y…

Thank you for the input. While Pen Testing has always been my goal, I have started looking at things like Database Development or Full-stack web dev training. Problem is, my financial situation doesn't always allow for me to get access to structured learning.

> Problem is, my financial situation doesn't always allow for me to get access to structured learning.

There's so much information on the web, or via books/video courses/MOOCs that there's no need to do the structured learning thing. Particularly with Python. Plus, Python is used in security to create scripts/tools.

EDIT: Example of some books, vis-a-vis Python and security (learn the basics first).

* Violent Python: A Cookbook for Hackers, Forensic Analysts, Penetration Testers and Security Engineers

* Hacking Secret Ciphers with Python

* Python Penetration Testing Essentials

* Gray Hat Python: Python Programming for Hackers and Reverse Engineers

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#58

Post by Mz » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:40 PM UTC

People who have no credentials, but lots of talent, sometimes start their own business. This is something I used to comment on a lot on homeschooling lists. The two examples I typically gave back then were: Bill Gates is a college dropout and Madonna is a college dropout.

An example that might mean a bit more to you: In this forum, IIRC, jacquesm is a high school dropout. He is currently #3 on the leaderboard. If you haven't read his blog, you might find it of interest:

http://www.jacquesmattheij.com/

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jacquesm

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#59

Post by tfg4k » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

dustingetz wrote: post #52

people as talented as you say you are, do not end up needing to write this post. Just my opinion

Noted and thank you for posting it. It just is a bit more complicated than that. I have been working on a Security focused startup to provide free training to the public as well as Risk Assessment, Pen Testing, etc. to the local small business community because no one else is doing it. Also, about the talent thing: The talent is being able to adapt quickly. It doesn't really help when you're broke and there just isn't much of anything other than becoming a nurse to adapt to in your area.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#60

Post by tfg4k » Sat, Feb 21, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #37

Instead of doing what is in demand, try doing what you like to do. Liking what you do makes it easier to deal with the boring part.

I enjoy it all. It isn't a situation like some I have read about here before where people who want to become programmers can't decide on a language. Since I have always pursued my "passion" for just about anything to do with Security, it has always been in my spare time. So, what I was looking for in that part of the OP was just a little guidance. Like, if I thought Fortran was dope, it still wouldn't do me much good to master it right now when I need work.. (trying a joke) Thanks!