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Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

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Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#71

Post by riskable »

This may seem way out in left field but: Do a background check on yourself. If a company does such a check and it comes back saying you're a serial murderer they will not tell you that's why you were turned down.

Background checks are often horribly wrong or contain bullshit red flags like, "Claimed position: Developer; Actual position: Architect". Get enough of those and you'll be dropped for consideration.

When I left an employer a few years ago I requested my employee record and what was inside blew my mind. The background check was so wrong it was crazy. It said I worked at places I never worked. It said I lied about my work history (aforementioned title naming problem). It said my provided address information did not exist!

Fortunately none of that seemed to matter to the company that hired me but I suspect it's only because the supposed red flags were ultimately meaningless (did I work as a customer service rep at some company 8 years ago? No. Was it relevant? No).

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#72

Post by Jacqued »

jarcane wrote: post #25
vikp wrote: post #5

I can't help you directly (I'm not in the IT Security field), but I think I have some applicable tips. I did very badly in college, and majored in American History. About three years ago, I quit my job and learned how to code. I was focused on machine learning and data analysis. I faced the same problem you did -- no way to prove I had any skills. The way to stand out to employers in your field is to do things that a…

Wow. That is almost exactly my life story right now (three years of cinema studies, had to drop out for financial reasons, now trying to teach myself code and sorta succeeding at it but feel grossly unqualified). Thank you for posting.

Hey ! I kind of did this transition recently from Literature grad to developer.

I don't know if you had the same experience but I think for me the key to succeeding in this transition was to try and learn not only to 'code', but also about the engineering, quality, deployment processes surrounding code that most juniors (that I have seen) typically know little-to-nothing about.

That way, even if you have a lot to learn on-the-job, you probably won't be a burden on the rest of the team and they won't have to spend too much time holding your hand (except at code review time, but I guess that's the case with every newcomer to a project).

I also worked for myself for some time and had some experience (minor really) to help me get my foot through the door. Then when you get a job, you have an opportunity to show what you can do and after that you're just like everybody else.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#73

Post by lomnakkus »

tfg4k wrote: post #63
ChainsawSurgery wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you shouldn't have confidence in your abilities. And if that truly is the case, then I think it's a great quality to have. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person and not a loudmouth jackass. However, as the quote goes, "That's the problem with first impressions. You only get to make one." People tend to be on their guard when interacting with someone for th…

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

> I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level.

This is one thing I would question about your self-assessment. What evidence are you relying on for this statement?

The reason I say this is that, (I believe) research shows that anything beyond the first 30 seconds or so during an interview actually doesn't matter. Obviously this is a statistical thing and may not apply in any given concrete situation, but if you're going to loads of interviews, you probably want to maximize your statistical probability of getting hired.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#74

Post by thirdsun »

tfg4k wrote: post #40
AYBABTME wrote: post #34

Maybe I'm dumb but nobody who's hired me ever cared of my (lack of) degrees. All they cared about was proof that I could get stuff done, which is one of the purpose of my Github. AFAIK, talent is all I have, and I've never had a hard time finding jobs as a developer. And I learned and started writing code 4 years ago, so it's not like I'm a child prodigy or something. I'm just a dude who picked up programming a few y…

Thank you for the input. While Pen Testing has always been my goal, I have started looking at things like Database Development or Full-stack web dev training. Problem is, my financial situation doesn't always allow for me to get access to structured learning.

There really isn't any kind of significant investment required to learn this stuff. Take it from a guy who's new to actual developing too - I made music before I got deeper into developing and while the tools required to produce something worth listening to are certainly much easier to afford these days, it's still a long shot from all the free and open source resources related to programming. Honestly, the only limiting factors are time and motivation. Otherwise the current state of learning to code is close to perfect.

On a sidenote though: With all those resources readily available, don't fall for the trap of being in love with preparing. I had a phase of getting stuck in a loop of doing one tutorial after another, setting up the editor again and again or generally spending too much time on minor things that make you feel like ticking checkboxes but actually don't move you forward. It happens all the time when one starts and learns somehing new - I saw it in music and audio too: People got obsessed with the tools instead of focusing on the work - whether it's that new eq or compressor (which actually isn't all that essential to the results) or starting the 17th tutorial before planning to finally tackles a real world project - in many cases those are just variations on the procrastionation theme. Just do it and learn as you go - afterwards you'll know which tools you really need.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#75

Post by tfg4k »

ChainsawSurgery wrote: post #68
tfg4k wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

Hm, well I'm not going to try and divine the source of your woes here since I'm obviously a stranger who has little context about your life and can only offer broad, general advice, but I will leave you with two thoughts: > I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. I think most of us know when an interview goes really poorly, but my personal stance towards most interviews is that if I…

I have considered all of this.

Most likely, what few interviews or solicitations for resumes, then interviews that I have had have been from companies who are willing to overlook my crappy resume (again, I made it this far and never had to really write one before) to interview me. What happens after that is anyone's guess. I just do my best, follow the processes the company has in place and just haven't had any luck as of late. Thank you again for all of your input. I realize I need to update my format and rewrite it. Maybe I have been using an unusual style? I'll have to look in to this tonight. [edit: because I didn't know how I accidentally formatted that text.] Oops.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#76

Post by tfg4k »

lomnakkus wrote: post #73
tfg4k wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

> I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. This is one thing I would question about your self-assessment. What evidence are you relying on for this statement? The reason I say this is that, (I believe) research shows that anything beyond the first 30 seconds or so during an interview actually doesn't matter. Obviously this is a statistical thing and may not apply in any given concret…

I speak well and make a great first impression, honestly. I have always understood how important that is.

Having said that, I just realized that what I started considering as the problem (my resume) may not be what needs work. In another comment, the statement was made that companies are willing to overlook certain things for the right candidate.

Perhaps my garbage resume is being overlooked I make it past the first telephone or face to face interview. I make it far enough to get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when you finally get the news that someone else was selected anyway. I'm sure I am not the only one here who gets that, right? Sorry, to your question, that is my basis for that statement.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#77

Post by lhl »

15 years in, formal eduction shouldn't be a big deal. Assuming you made a deep positive impact on successful projects, you should have a deep network or connections and referrals to tap? If not, you need to answer that question.

Why are you "bluffing" through jobs when you should have a large tool-belt of experience? Just-in-time/on-the-job learning should be a positive, but it sounds like you need to improve your soft skills/be able to more effectively reposition/sell yourself.

Beyond a resume, which you've mentioned you're terrible at (learn to make a good one, there are plenty of resources, or get someone who is good at it to improve yours) you should probably also put together a CV/project portfolio. Is your LinkedIn up to date?

Also, while it sounds like your experience is mostly in IT support/systems integration, if you're looking for employability, just learn to code. iOS/Android if you're looking for immediate employability, some systems language, full-stack webdev for more general flexibility.

Participate in some open source projects, like others have mentioned, make sure you have a robust Github account. The only way to judge talent is by output, and having public repos and project participation speaks for itself and is a 100x better indicator than any degree or credential.

I wish you the best of luck, but you maybe getting feedback from former employees and coworkers to assess your strengths and weaknesses would be more effective than asking random people on the Internet?

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#78

Post by tfg4k »

chrisbennet wrote: post #11

Where are you located? A friend of mine has some sort of security business, maybe I could get you in contact with him for advice at the least.

I meant to reply to this first. I didn't expect so many responses. I am located in Upper East, TN. The Tri-Cities to be more specific.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#79

Post by tfg4k »

riskable wrote: post #71

This may seem way out in left field but: Do a background check on yourself. If a company does such a check and it comes back saying you're a serial murderer they will not tell you that's why you were turned down. Background checks are often horribly wrong or contain bullshit red flags like, "Claimed position: Developer; Actual position: Architect". Get enough of those and you'll be dropped for consideration. When I l…

This is rather unsettling as I have never asked for an employee record from anyone before.

I have thought to run a background check before. However, I didn't know or have the time to find out back then where to request one. I know there are a lot of sites out there who apparently generate a report for you for a price. I just didn't know if any were particularly reputable.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when all you have is talent?

#80

Post by Natsu »

tfg4k wrote: post #63
ChainsawSurgery wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you shouldn't have confidence in your abilities. And if that truly is the case, then I think it's a great quality to have. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person and not a loudmouth jackass. However, as the quote goes, "That's the problem with first impressions. You only get to make one." People tend to be on their guard when interacting with someone for th…

You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be a…

> My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them.

Make it one page. Stick to things they actually care about. Yes, this means tailoring it to each opportunity. This also means leaving things out... that's okay, I remember in my last resume leaving off some ancient Java experience from college that didn't seem relevant at the time. It became a pleasant surprise for them when they discovered that I knew more than was on the page and we started discussing the usage of JAD.

Your goal is no typos, no informal/slang language and one, neatly written page. It should look neat, clean and uniform.

You should imagine that they have a spreadsheet or checklist (they do) that matches the ad. You want to help them check off as many boxes as possible as easily as possible. Then help them do the same thing in the interview.

When you don't know, discuss what you'd do to find out. Show them what you've learned in the past and how you've figured out problems before that look like problems they're having now.

In my last interview, they started asking me what I knew about REST and I started describing the last RESTful interface I'd made. Things went very well from there.

I hope this helps.

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