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F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

nytimes.com

51–60 of 452 posts

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#51

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

I get what you're saying, but living in rural Indiana I could say yes basically. Our water, gas and power companies here locally are coop non profits and the employees are residents (and users themselves). The whole experience dealing with these entities are night and day when compared to say Comcast or Verizon.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#52

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

My tap water is clean and delicious and I have never, ever had a problem with it. I have never experienced an unscheduled service interruption with my water, and scheduled service interruptions are very rare and advertised well in advance.

My electricity is stable and reliable, and any power outages I've experienced have been brief, and exclusively due to exceptional weather events.

I'm also a Comcast customer, and I would say that I have some sort of partial or total service interruption (internet is completely gone, or set top box stops working) on average, once every other week or so. These outages are usually relatively brief (a few minutes), but at least once a year I lose one or both services for 6 hours or more. Plus the internet speed varies wildly from "high-end dialup modem" at the low end, to "significantly less than the advertised value" at the high end. Needless to say, I have never actually experienced the advertised speeds.

If I got the same service from my utilities as I did from Comcast, I would end up brushing my teeth with raw sewage about once a month, and trying to toast bread would occasionally cause a power dip that would brown-out every other outlet in my house. I probably wouldn't be able to shower some nights because the cold water pressure would be unusably low, and I would have to reset every clock in my house a couple times a month. The one similarity is that I would still be unable to shop around for better service, because Comcast is the only option in my area.

If you want a TLDR, it's that I would figuratively kill to get Internet service that's even just half as good as my utility service, because right now my internet service is much worse than that.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before I got Google Fiber I was definitely happier with my water and electric than my service provider. Now I am probably actually still happier, but I don't have too many complaints about Google Fiber. I can't think of the last time I had an issue with my water! It's got 100% uptime.

The issue most here are not mentioning is the sad state of affairs of much of the US public infrastructure. I wonder how old the pipes running to your house are and how long ago they should have been upgraded? This is also a possibility if internet becomes a utility.

Do you remember the other day when the FCC changed the definition of broadband to 25/3? If they can continue to do that, we would no longer be beholden to the ISPs upgrading out of the goodness of their hearts. They would upgrade whenever their regulating agency told them they had to.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#54
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised at how reliable utilities are in America. I was in a low income neighborhood in San Antonio during university, and had maybe 2 blackouts in 3 years.

Where are you from exactly? I live in Europe and 2 blackouts in 3 years would still be an outrage. (To be fair, we have less natural disasters.)

The length of the blackout would probably need to be given to provide some perspective. 2 30 minute blackouts would be much easier to deal with than 1 3 day blackout.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#55
Law does not operate in a vacuum because, in the end, it is closely tied to power - to fine, to jail, to sanction, to regulate and restrict - and that makes it scary when it becomes unhinged from a sense of principle in its application.

Is it wise, then, to grant unchecked, plenary power over the internet to the government in the name of trusting that those who currently exercise the F.C.C.'s power will exercise that power with self-imposed restraint? Lord Acton's dictum that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely comes to mind in considering the implications of this step. Once we grant that the F.C.C. has open-ended authority to do what it wants with the internet, where is the formal protection against abuse and who will exercise it. Certainly the courts will not. The Telecommunications Act being relied upon here certainly grants the formal authority to do this. Those who passed that Act did so 80 years ago and never contemplated that it would be so applied. But the courts will say, it was for Congress to make the law and for the appointed agency to administer it within the bounds laid out by the legislature, and that means this exercise of authority will be upheld. But so too will any attempt by the F.C.C. to impose detailed regulations over pricing, usage, and all sorts of other areas that those who favor a free and open internet clearly do not desire. Once this step is taken, all formal protections against abuses of this type are gone. What, then, is the remaining form of protection. It is that we choose to trust those who exercise open-ended power to use "restraint." They assure us they would never change the way things are. They will never succumb to the power and influence of lobbyists. They will never exercise so vast a power that is given to them without checks for any corrupt motive. After all, governments worldwide and throughout history have demonstrated that they can be trusted with unchecked power without abusing their citizens. And so we can all rest easily knowing that our benign government is and will always remain in good hands and will always keeps its promise. After all, who needs the formal protections of the rule of law when you can give all over to the discretion of leaders who will be wielding the very powers whose potential abuse we all fear. So, for those who want net neutrality at any cost, the end justifies the means and any fear in principle of giving unchecked theoretical power to an unaccountable governmental agency goes out the window in pursuit of the immediate goal of net neutrality and in trusting current leaders who tell us that they really never intend to use all those unchecked powers. I truly hope that is so but I am very saddened that people never learn the lessons of history about what can happen when political leaders suddenly find themselves with vast amounts of unchecked power.

The free internet we know today will be utterly dependent on their good graces. I for one am not so sanguine as others about where this may lead.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#56

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

When I call the water company, I don't talk to some guy in India who has never heard of my state, let alone my city. When the power and water go out, the service isn't great but compared to my internet provider it would be a huge improvement. YMMV.

I don't think net neutrality will dictate that support staff be located in America.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 100% happy with my utility companies, but I'm 500% more satisfied with them than any cable company I've ever had.

I can dump my cable company if they piss me off. I can't do that with my utility companies

I can too, and then not have cable. At least with the utility company, I can put up PV panels and live off grid.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 100% happy with my utility companies, but I'm 500% more satisfied with them than any cable company I've ever had.

I can dump my cable company if they piss me off. I can't do that with my utility companies

For a lot of people, they can't dump their cable company if they piss them off, because that's the only option they have available.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#59
post #38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have generally positive experiences with power company employees. On the other hand: i. I can't fire my power company, nor can I ever really expect to gain that ability. ii. As nice and hardworking as the power company employees are, there's still only one main power run for the 1/8th of Oak Park that I live in, and any time a tree goes down in the alley along that run, or a squirrel detonates a transformer al…

Wait, you can't chose between different power companies in the US? Even in socialist Europe that isn't normally a problem. I can choose between at least a dozen different providers of electricity, and at least half a dozen providers of Internet and landline telephone access. And that's just in the rural parts of the country. Granted most of the infrastructure is centralized, but that doesn't stop competition on exten…

You used to be able to choose. Then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis happened.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#60
post #38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have generally positive experiences with power company employees. On the other hand: i. I can't fire my power company, nor can I ever really expect to gain that ability. ii. As nice and hardworking as the power company employees are, there's still only one main power run for the 1/8th of Oak Park that I live in, and any time a tree goes down in the alley along that run, or a squirrel detonates a transformer al…

Wait, you can't chose between different power companies in the US? Even in socialist Europe that isn't normally a problem. I can choose between at least a dozen different providers of electricity, and at least half a dozen providers of Internet and landline telephone access. And that's just in the rural parts of the country. Granted most of the infrastructure is centralized, but that doesn't stop competition on exten…

There are choices for service providers in many places in the US. However, there is one set of power lines, and I would presume that most power losses are due to the power line failures.
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