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F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

nytimes.com

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Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#31

Post by djrogers »

supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

The FCC doesn't regulate power and water, what they're talking about is making to Telco regulation - AKA Title II. The same regulation that left the telephone system unchanged for near 50 years, and made it near-legal to get the cell system off the ground until dramatic changes were made.

I'm very torn on this - I want net neutrality, but I have zero faith in the ability of a bunch of unelected bureaucrats to write 10,000 pages of regulations that will make things better.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#32

Post by DanielBMarkham »

As a libertarian who knows tech, I'm on the government's side here, although I'm grimacing while I'm supporting them. It's simply the lesser of two evils.

One thing to help clarify the debate if you're talking to somebody who opposes this move: do not confuse the issue of how the government should be treating utilities in general with whether or not the internet is a utility. We can have a grand old time debating the overreach of a regulatory statist society, but that has got jack squat to do with the issue at hand. Is the internet more like electricity, where you pay so much for a bucketful, and then you can do whatever you want with it? Or is it more like Star Wars, where George Lucas and Disney can charge us 17 times at 17 different rates for different versions of what is essentially the same thing? These are two different discussions to be had; do not let folks conflate them into one.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#33

Post by IanDrake »

IanDrake wrote: post #23

That will be a sad day. Internet technology still has a lot of room to improve before the government steps in and kills all market forces that encourage those improvements. If you don't like your current service levels now, just wait until the government gets involved.

I realize HN is full of idealistic kids who never lived through the government taking control of something to "improve" it, so your down votes are forgiven.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#34

Post by spiritplumber »

ceejayoz wrote: post #18
supergeek133 wrote: post #4

I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? That's where this is headed.

> I get what they're trying to accomplish, we all want faster more reliable service, but as comparison is anyone 100% happy with their utility (power, water, etc)? I am. My water is clean and I've never had an outage. My power is reasonably cheap and quite reliable. The state doesn't allow either one to raise rates exorbitantly from year to year, either, and despite that both have made major upgrades to their facilit…

I'm surprised at how reliable utilities are in America. I was in a low income neighborhood in San Antonio during university, and had maybe 2 blackouts in 3 years.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#35

Post by Retric »

djrogers wrote: post #13

Setting aside the ultimate politics and ramifications of this, it is interesting (and kind of scary) to watch the fight between a non-elected bureaucracy and our elected house of representatives to regulate the internet. Congress seems to be completely incapable of doing more than grandstanding, while the bureaucrats may wind up dramatically increasing their own power with a single stroke of their unelected pens. It'…

This is a clear case of the checks and balances.

The Congress would win if they could override a veto. They would also win if the president decided not to veto.

So in this case it's the President vs. a divided congress and not a non-elected bureaucracy overstepping their authority.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#36

Post by wmf »

higherpurpose wrote: post #15

Wait, doesn't calling the Internet a utility mean all data will be metered by the MB from now on? Or does that not apply here? If it does, wouldn't that give carriers exactly what they wanted - the ability to charge video providers much more than they would say a news website? The idea behind the whole net neutrality movement was to have "all you can eat plans" where all data is treated the same. What if now we get t…

Phone calls aren't required to be metered and neither will be the Internet. But yes, metering is generally considered to be neutral, although not necessarily a good idea.

CALEA has existed for years and I haven't heard that Title II legalizes dragnet surveillance.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#37

Post by wvenable »

IanDrake wrote: post #23

That will be a sad day. Internet technology still has a lot of room to improve before the government steps in and kills all market forces that encourage those improvements. If you don't like your current service levels now, just wait until the government gets involved.

It's not like the government created the Internet in the first place...

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#38

Post by pluma »

tptacek wrote: post #22
markbao wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on where you live, I suppose. I have zero problems with my ConEd power and whoever supplies my water, and I find the pricing pretty reasonable. My power supplier even offers different energy sources to use other than the standard one, which honestly blows my mind. And then I call into Time Warner spend more time trying to get them to understand what I'm talking about than I've ever spent on the phone with my…

I also have generally positive experiences with power company employees. On the other hand: i. I can't fire my power company, nor can I ever really expect to gain that ability. ii. As nice and hardworking as the power company employees are, there's still only one main power run for the 1/8th of Oak Park that I live in, and any time a tree goes down in the alley along that run, or a squirrel detonates a transformer al…

Wait, you can't chose between different power companies in the US? Even in socialist Europe that isn't normally a problem. I can choose between at least a dozen different providers of electricity, and at least half a dozen providers of Internet and landline telephone access. And that's just in the rural parts of the country. Granted most of the infrastructure is centralized, but that doesn't stop competition on extending it.

Maybe the problem isn't whether Internet access should be regulated as a utility service but simply that utility services in the US are crap?

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#39

Post by post_break »

tptacek wrote: post #22
markbao wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on where you live, I suppose. I have zero problems with my ConEd power and whoever supplies my water, and I find the pricing pretty reasonable. My power supplier even offers different energy sources to use other than the standard one, which honestly blows my mind. And then I call into Time Warner spend more time trying to get them to understand what I'm talking about than I've ever spent on the phone with my…

I also have generally positive experiences with power company employees. On the other hand: i. I can't fire my power company, nor can I ever really expect to gain that ability. ii. As nice and hardworking as the power company employees are, there's still only one main power run for the 1/8th of Oak Park that I live in, and any time a tree goes down in the alley along that run, or a squirrel detonates a transformer al…

Most people can't fire their internet provider.

Re: F.C.C. Is Expected to Propose Regulating the Internet as a Utility

#40

Post by ceejayoz »

thissideup wrote: post #29
ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has nothing to do with whether or not it's a utility. They're clearly already capable of doing so.

Explain how the two ideas aren't related.

Classifying the Internet as a utility doesn't change the various Three Letter Agencies' ability nor motiviations to surveil traffic.
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