Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

mako.cc

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 511 posts

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#441

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

electronvolt wrote: post #285
tjradcliffe wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have statistics, so this is all anecdotal, but most Professors I have gotten to know well have a favorite team or sport etc. This has been my experience, up to and including a stint at a top tier American university where during the World Series I couldn't have a conversation with anyone, including my elderly Swiss-American academic supervisor, that didn't have a long preamble about how things were going fo…

I think even among those who don't necessarily care for sports, calling them 'sports-hating snobs' is often at odds with reality. I grew up in an academic family. My parents were at the top of their respective fields, and their work, to them was as much a labor of love as it was anything else. I found that really very few things competed in their eyes with the fun/enjoyment of doing their job. Sports didn't really ma…

Your signalling theory misses out the extent to which it seems to be okay to signal disdain for 'intellectual' interests like art and culture.

Bottom line for me is that no one has ever had to worry about getting beaten up by a stadium full of Mozart fans, or humiliated in high school by a feral gang of science nerds.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#442

Post by ZenoArrow »

ansible wrote: post #356
dragonwriter wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see that as the proximate cause of most conflicts throughout history. No one said it was the proximate cause of most conflicts throughout history. Nor have conflicts in general stopped since sports became popular, nor were conflicts in general part of the discussion. What was asserted upthread was that sports was an outlet that prevented "small-scale skirmishes". I simply pointed out that, in fact, professi…

Ah, are you talking about modern-day football hooligans? When I say "small-scale skirmishes", I'm talking about relatively small border conflicts and the like that last less than a year and kill tens to hundreds of people. As opposed to regional or national conflicts where the casualties get into the thousands or much higher.

Are you talking about football in the American sense or to describe soccer?

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in the UK football hooligans are a dying breed. There have been a few Hollywood films made about UK football hooligans, but it's more about the situation at it was in the 70's/80's.

I'm not an expert on it, but it strikes me it was born out of boredom. You'd travel to an away match, see some goalless draw, and had wasted your weekend. The scrap may have started as some sort of consolation prize. Anyway, now the games are televised, prices are more expensive and the audience has become broader so the environment that bred it has gone. Some firms still have a reputation, but it's increasingly irrelevant.

I wonder what fuels the hooliganism where you are.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#443

Post by glesica »

slg wrote: post #338
XorNot wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not his point though. His point is that for every bit of handwringing of how ghastly some people's comments on sports are, there's the reality that the football coach is the highest (in the millions of dollars range) paid position at almost every university in the US, how the sporting department despite those figures manages to be a net budgetry drain on almost every school which has one, and the reality that…

>how the sporting department despite those figures manages to be a net budgetry drain on almost every school which has one And so are music departments. Which I think is part of the point here. I firmly believe that playing right tackle can teach you just as much as playing the oboe, yet intellectuals tend to look down on former and praise the latter. Organized sports are not only a hobby and social gathering, but th…

> >how the sporting department despite those figures manages to be a net budgetry drain on almost every school which has one > And so are music departments.

If the band directors made millions of dollars, you would have a good point.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#444

Post by snarfy »

I wouldn't have a problem with professional sports if they weren't subsidized by the rest of society. Why does 80% of my cable bill go to pay for ESPN and ESPN2? Why are my tax dollars paying for a stadium who's profits go to the private owners? Why do I get a discount at the grocery store for wearing a football jersey? Professional sports would be nowhere the size they are today without the subsidies.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#445

Post by briandear »

Glyptodon wrote: post #172
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist. Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who bec…

If sports weren't the basis for cliques, it would be something else. Eliminating sports would not make high school any better, people would just organize into different exclusionary groups.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#446

Post by briandear »

glesica wrote: post #443
slg wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how the sporting department despite those figures manages to be a net budgetry drain on almost every school which has one And so are music departments. Which I think is part of the point here. I firmly believe that playing right tackle can teach you just as much as playing the oboe, yet intellectuals tend to look down on former and praise the latter. Organized sports are not only a hobby and social gathering, but th…

> >how the sporting department despite those figures manages to be a net budgetry drain on almost every school which has one > And so are music departments. If the band directors made millions of dollars, you would have a good point.

If band directors brought in millions in revenue and PR value to a school, then YOU would have a point. Nobody would have ever heard of Gonzaga university if it weren't for basketball. At the schools with million dollar coaches, they bring in millions in revenue in both tickets, licensing as well as intangible PR value. I am not defending or disparaging college sports, I am making the point that a school's band program isn't generally adding revenue. It rarely attracts big donors. While Div I sports might have an operating loss (maybe,) the net income to a school, through donations, PR value, etc far exceeds the cost. How many kids want to go to Florida State that don't live in Florida? By attracting more national applicants, a school can charge out of state tuition that directly benefits their bottom line. There are many benefits to a school that aren't measured with the myopic view of "athletic income - athletic cost = profit of the program."

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#447

Post by briandear »

ansible wrote: post #271
Glyptodon wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist. Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who bec…

I love sports, but every time I watch or support them I feel like I'm destroying civil society and undermining democracy and helping to destroy the last vestiges of effective public education. I'm not a big sports fan, but pro sports does serve a purpose. Sports in general is ritualized hunting / warfare. A civilized and less brutal version of war, but the roots are clear. The skills used are the same as our ancestor…

Swimming is ritualized warfare? That argument sounds like something one might come up with if they had a freshman philosophy paper due the next day. We could say that grocery shopping is ritualized hunting or that a piñata is an encouragement of ritualized torture. There comes a point when the intellectual threads holding together an argument approach absurdity.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#448

Post by tomjen3 »

yuncun wrote: post #205
belorn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's called being a snob I kind of disagree with that label, as it imply that its only is a problem with higher education. The working class show the same overt contempt at people who watch e-sports, snooker, and other sports which isn't directly associated with the working class culture.

I think your mistaking apathy for disdain. Just because marinekingprime isn't revered like Lionel Messi doesn't mean there is a conspiracy against egaming. People just don't care, and there is nothign wrong with that. I just finished my undergrad, and I've realized that the 'jocks hate nerds' has become severely outdated in my generation. Like the parent commentor, I grew up in both worlds; My athletic, frat-boy, 'jo…

>Nowadays I've found that the real assholes in the "jocks hate nerds" equation have become the 'nerds'.

I guess you either die young or live long enough to become the villan.

That said jocks have a lot more social respect despite nerds contributing much more to our society. That seems reasonable to be pissed of about, and being perceived as being treated unfairly by a group and therefore hating it is pretty much what we humans do.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#449

Post by briandear »

Hasu wrote: post #351
refurb wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports is a huge financial drain on the school? Do you have any data? What I heard was that college football tends to pay for all of the other sports at a school. If anything sports creates a lot of opportunities for students that otherwise could be done due to budgets.

> What I heard was that college football tends to pay for all of the other sports at a school. Yeah, at the most successful football schools. That's a minority among schools that have football programs. [1] [2] >If anything sports creates a lot of opportunities for students that otherwise could be done due to budgets. No, sports diverts scholarship funds from scholars to athletes, and the athletes rarely take full ad…

Where do those scholarship dollars come from? It must be all te donations the sociology department attracts.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#450

Post by wtbob »

You know, growing up I absolutely loathed sports. I didn't understand them (we never watched them in my house), and sports-lovers never explained them; I still remember my gym 'teacher' yelling about 'first and ten' when we had to play flag football, and never actually explaining what it meant. I wasn't any good at them, due at least in part to my bad eyes. In retrospect, I suspect that I also disliked them, whether played or watched, because they were a social situation and I wasn't terribly good at social situations.

In retrospect, I do kind of wish that I'd gotten into them, because they are a bonding experience for so many, and they do provide the grounds for a somewhat better level of small talk than idle chit-chat about the weather. And they certainly can be enjoyable to play.

But as it is, I just don't emotionally get it. Watching sports is boring; it simply doesn't connect. Why should I care if a group of millionaires from my town are running around on some grass with a group of millionaires from your town? Why should I be happy that my taxes are higher in order to raise money for buildings for those same millionaires? Why would I want to spend hours a week and hundreds of dollars watching rich people exercise, talking about rich people exercising and thinking about rich people exercising?

It just doesn't make sense to me. Part of me wishes it did; obviously I am unlike most people. But part of me is glad, too. In some ways, I feel like the little boy in the The Emperor's New Clothes; in others I feel like I'm blind.

As an aside, I thought this quote was just hilarious:

> The machoness and absence of women in the highest levels of most professional sports bothers[sic] me deeply.

I really wonder how one can have working eyes, possess a functioning brain and have come to adulthood and still be surprised that in almost any physical competition the absolute best competitors will be male. It takes a pretty sincere dedication to being disconnected from reality to manage that. It'd be like saying, 'avian over-representation and the absence of fish from the air bother me deeply.'

Post reply on HN