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Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

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Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#351

Post by Hasu »

refurb wrote: post #335
XorNot wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not his point though. His point is that for every bit of handwringing of how ghastly some people's comments on sports are, there's the reality that the football coach is the highest (in the millions of dollars range) paid position at almost every university in the US, how the sporting department despite those figures manages to be a net budgetry drain on almost every school which has one, and the reality that…

Sports is a huge financial drain on the school? Do you have any data? What I heard was that college football tends to pay for all of the other sports at a school. If anything sports creates a lot of opportunities for students that otherwise could be done due to budgets.

> What I heard was that college football tends to pay for all of the other sports at a school.

Yeah, at the most successful football schools. That's a minority among schools that have football programs. [1] [2]

>If anything sports creates a lot of opportunities for students that otherwise could be done due to budgets.

No, sports diverts scholarship funds from scholars to athletes, and the athletes rarely take full advantage of the academics in college, going for easy classes and easy majors. It actually destroys a lot of opportunities, particularly at schools that are losing money on their sports programs.

[1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/05/05/does-foot...

[2] http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Ar...

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#352

Post by bmoresbest55 »

As a person who has played many sports and specifically basketball to a college D1 level I find this article both true and troubling. This is because I also enjoy discussing things at a high level. I enjoy the fact that I can talk to a person about Turing tests (or any CS related topic) and then turn the conversation right into how the Baltimore Ravens need better defensive backs for next season (Baltimore/DC fan here).

I think that people who engage in elitism are extremely petty and self-centered and I have told the few that I come across so. No one is better than any other person based on their passions or interests.

I just want everyone to be friends. Is that so hard to ask?

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#353

Post by jpindar »

toby wrote: post #259
kulak wrote: post #243

To my ears, this "cultivated disinterest" label comes off as something of a cheap stereotype. Simply put, not everyone who lacks interest in professional sports nurtures a "cultivated distinterest" in the subject, nor are we driven by some need to display this disinterest as some kind of marker of class rank or intellectual superiority. We simply lack interest in the subject, period. And when pressed on the subject,…

I think what he's referring to is people who are proud of their ignorance, which it doesn't sound like you are doing. You've certainly encountered people who believe saying things like "Oh, I don't even know who Kim Kardashian is" or "I haven't read a book since college" is bragging.

Or the disingenuous "oh, is there a football game this week" - which they are only saying as a response to hearing people talk about the game all week.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#354

Post by siegecraft »

austerity wrote: post #334
siegecraft wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you missed where you used the word "upper" or thought that it was equivalent to "lower," when in fact they are opposites. My apologies for this gentle correction if you are not a native english speaker.

I am not a native speaker FWIW but "upper" is exactly what I wanted to say. My point was that if you replace football with golf and working class with upper class the whole idea of cultivating interest in sport to fit with some social group starts to sound really cheesy. And that author's "noble" intent is a fig leaf on what sounds like a rather pointless exercise to me. Although I cannot pinpoint exactly why. (btw,…

I don't think it sounds cheesy, in fact there are tons of people who play golf (or at least only get into it) for the business and networking aspects of it. The difference is that building rapport with the upper class is probably seen as self-serving while building rapport with the lower class is maybe construed as altruistic, noble, self-sacrificing? It really comes down to common courtesy; if you are pleasant to rich upper class people it can be dismissed as sucking up; if you treat people in the lower class the same way, there's less room to dismiss it as anything but genuine niceness.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#355

Post by arjn »

jliptzin wrote: post #320
kulak wrote: post #243

To my ears, this "cultivated disinterest" label comes off as something of a cheap stereotype. Simply put, not everyone who lacks interest in professional sports nurtures a "cultivated distinterest" in the subject, nor are we driven by some need to display this disinterest as some kind of marker of class rank or intellectual superiority. We simply lack interest in the subject, period. And when pressed on the subject,…

You hit the nail on the head. I've lived with football fans most of my life and have been exposed to it plenty of times. Even when I try to pay attention to it, I find it so boring that I zone out and begin thinking about other things without even realizing it. I have no problem with people who enjoy football and professional sports in general, but it's just not something I have an interest in.

I feel the same way. I've absolutely no interest in football even after trying a couple of times. I've also lost interest in other sports over time. It may be something to do with growing older and having other priorities.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#356

Post by ansible »

dragonwriter wrote: post #348
ansible wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dancesport is a thing, and its assuredly not ritualized hunting / warfare. The main topic of conversation is the widely popular professional sports such as Football, American Football, etc. These sports have attackers, defenders, and so on. Sports is -- and has been for quite some time -- a frequent focus of the small-scale skirmishes much the same as those you paint it as an alternative to. I don't see that as the p…

> I don't see that as the proximate cause of most conflicts throughout history. No one said it was the proximate cause of most conflicts throughout history. Nor have conflicts in general stopped since sports became popular, nor were conflicts in general part of the discussion. What was asserted upthread was that sports was an outlet that prevented "small-scale skirmishes". I simply pointed out that, in fact, professi…

Ah, are you talking about modern-day football hooligans?

When I say "small-scale skirmishes", I'm talking about relatively small border conflicts and the like that last less than a year and kill tens to hundreds of people. As opposed to regional or national conflicts where the casualties get into the thousands or much higher.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#357

Post by jpindar »

robg wrote: post #286
oofabz wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This position taken by Chomsky is exactly what the article is denouncing, and I think Chomsky comes off as a smug jerk here. If Chomsky believes cheering for your classmates is stupid, then he must believe that we should be perfectly objective and treat everyone exactly the same. If you're a judge or President, you have an obligation to the public to act that way. But me, I'm glad I have the luxury of showing prefere…

We are a tribal species. Teams (and schools) are modern tribes.

Schools, nations, races, religions, you name it, we're just as tribal as apes. At least in sports it's fairly explicit that while I think my tribe is the best, you naturally think your tribe is the best, and that's OK, it doesn't mean either of us are bad people and we can agree to disagree.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#358

Post by SapphireSun »

remarkEon wrote: post #323
SapphireSun wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the coming together / tribalism part that unnerves me. There's no rational reason for people to get so excited about it, so it rubs me the wrong way the same way most political rallies do. Small scale sports don't have quite the same effect on me, but large heavily marketed ones do as there is a pressure to conform (i.e. care, participate, hold certain opinions that positively reflect on the enterprise).

>It's the coming together / tribalism part that unnerves me. Why? Is community bad? I need that argument to be unpacked a bit more, because for me my experience living in several different cities as their teams make a playoff run has been a fun, electrifying experience. Neighbors are hanging out. Kids are having sleep overs watching games. There's a (usually very) healthy bump to the local economy. For all the room-f…

I think those effects are good, but I also recognize that because these effects are unmoored from anything real we're dealing with nearly pure social signaling amongst a mass responding to tribal tendencies.

Of course, having something that serves as a community focal point that crosses faith boundaries is invaluable - nearly any time new people meet powerful things happen.

However, I take issue with your point about the economy: A local bump means that there was a withdrawal from somewhere else in the economy. If it came mostly from savings rather than from shifting consumption from other locales, then it generated increased consumption, which depending on the macroeconomic condition, could be good or bad (though during the latest recession, inducing an overall increase in consumption sounds like the right thing to do). It's not clear whether this is a good thing or not. Why should I prefer the shop owners in your town versus some other town to temporarily enjoy increased profits? There might be a good reason, but for a disinterested third party, odds are it's a wash.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#359

Post by dragonwriter »

bmoresbest55 wrote: post #352

As a person who has played many sports and specifically basketball to a college D1 level I find this article both true and troubling. This is because I also enjoy discussing things at a high level. I enjoy the fact that I can talk to a person about Turing tests (or any CS related topic) and then turn the conversation right into how the Baltimore Ravens need better defensive backs for next season (Baltimore/DC fan her…

> As a person who has played many sports and specifically basketball to a college D1 level I find this article both true and troubling. This is because I also enjoy discussing things at a high level. I enjoy the fact that I can talk to a person about Turing tests (or any CS related topic) and then turn the conversation right into how the Baltimore Ravens need better defensive backs for next season (Baltimore/DC fan here).

I'm glad that you enjoy that, and its great for you. I'm not sure why that should dissuade anyone else from choosing not participate in the ritual of fandom in the particular professional sports that are widely popular, or why the fact that you enjoy it should make it "troubling" that other people choose not to engage with it.

> I just want everyone to be friends. Is that so hard to ask?

No, it is easy to ask anything. It is also unreasonable. Friendship, if it is to be meaningful, is a positive commitment of time and resources. Everyone can't be friends without robbing the term of all meaning, because there are too many people.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#360

Post by omegaham »

civilian wrote: post #138
rinon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

The amount of commercials required to watch a game of football is intrinsically bad. The tax exempt status of the NFL is intrinsically bad.

Chinese stream. No commercials. It is, by far, the greatest thing that has happened to football.
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