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Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

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Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#61

Post by ceejayoz »

coding4all wrote: post #3
jgrahamc wrote: post #2

There are also additional clues pointing to Regin being a Five Eyes tool: In the QWERTY code, there are numerous references to cricket, a sport that enjoys extreme popularity in the Commonwealth. Given the relative popularity of cricket in the US vs. the rest of the world, it's more likely that this was written outside the NSA.

I don't think it's the sport. I think it's cricket = bug = spy tool.

A spy tool that chirps every few seconds to announce its presence? There are better insects to reference.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#62

Post by Deviant »

NietTim wrote: post #27
hluska wrote: post #12

Nothing like waking up to a story that makes you feel embarrassed by your citizenship. Good job Canada, you're making a Maple Leaf a dangerous symbol all around the world. When I was a youngster, being Canadian meant that Incould travel anywhere and be fine. Granted, there was a > 50% probability that the other Canadians I would meet were really Americans, but that was nothing. My country had a solid international re…

Just imagine being American and being full of false pride...

How about being an American that has lived in the States, Aussie, and New Zealand over the past five years - I can't escape the Five Eyes shame :(

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#63

Post by john_b »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #42
Wilya wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time seeing how spying on European officials will help identify criminals and terrorists.

Again, you seem to not understand how I discriminate between means and their use. Spying on European officials is a problem with oversight, not with capabilities. Arguably, European officials are a lot softer targets than a crime cartel or terrorists in this regard.

> "Spying on European officials is a problem with oversight, not with capabilities."

Snowden has showed this to be absolutely false. "Oversight" has been the nominal preventative for spying on our allies for decades, and it has always failed because these are spy agencies we are talking about. Their nature (and job description) is to do things in secret. You cannot oversee what you cannot see. The NSA has a fundamental incentive to hide as much of its activities as possible, and American politicians have a fundamental incentive to look the other way lest they appear "soft on terrorism" or some such nonsense. What few laws constrain the behavior of the NSA, GCHQ, etc are routinely ignored or "interpreted" to their own favor.

You cannot let the technological genie out of the bottle and expect a close watch on the genie to keep it under control. Mass surveillance technology is a pandora's box that you can't control.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#64

Post by Lambdanaut »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #57
happyscrappy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Speigel reported on the ubiquitous US spy stations peppered throughout Europe? Have they speculated on why Europe does not close them?

Because the US shares intelligence with those governments. In some EU countries it is illegal for the government to spy on its citizens (also see the US pre-9/11), so the US spies on those countries and then relays the info back. Pre-9/11 this is also how the US worked. The UK spied on the US and the US spied on the UK, thus both subverting national laws, they then shared intelligence with one another (which is legal…

In my mind that's conspiracy-theory level claims. Got sources?

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#65

Post by coldcode »

teamhappy wrote: post #39
alfiedotwtf wrote: post #7

If so, can the people and companies that were affected file a class action?

Class action might be a solution for US citizens. The problem with malware though is that you end up infecting a whole lot of innocent civilians all over the place, which the people in Den Haag have slightly mixed feelings about. To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed that these cases never end up in international courts. The rules we have in place seem pretty clear to me.

Unlikely, you can't sue the Federal Government without its permission. In any case the NSA would simply say "national security" and boom you are done.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#66

Post by raverbashing »

Flip-per wrote: post #53
raverbashing wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country...

Are you serious? I wonder what Barrett Brown would say about this topic, if he wouldn't sit in prison right now: http://boingboing.net/2015/01/22/barrettbrown.html Are you aware that (h)activists from around the world do not travel to the USA because they fear the consequences, having their equipment seized or being imprisoned? Do you know why Laura Poitras is living in Berlin right now?

I am serious and I am aware of the issues you raised.

Meanwhile Turkey has to remove pages from FB because they're "offensive", not to mention other issues that happens in the ME.

I am certainly not saying the US has the better situation, and Europe looks good, unless you "offend" some groups of people...

And if you think censorship by DMCA is bad in the US you should know the German GEMA.

Please note that freedom from critique of a country usually is much stronger while being outside of that country.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#67

Post by Amezarak »

amirmc wrote: post #29
bayesianhorse wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. government, for all its weaknesses, is providing their citizens with freedom and liberties as good or better than most other countries. The NSA does have democratic oversight. It is controlled by the executive, legislative and judicative branches of the system. That this control is inadequate in our view, doesn't matter for the question whether or not the NSA is part of a democratic system.

> "That this control is inadequate in our view, doesn't matter for ... a democratic system." It absolutely matters. Without those controls you have a democracy in name only. You could quite happily rig elections, arrest opponents, suppress the population etc, while still claiming to be 'democratic'.

> You could quite happily rig elections, arrest opponents, suppress the population etc, while still claiming to be 'democratic'.

There is nothing undemocratic about those thing as long as a majority of people agree to them - though with rigged elections, you might not be democratic for very much longer. "Democracy" is not synonymous with "respecting my values and human rights."

If enough Americans were sufficiently upset about the NSA, it would be gone. They aren't. It's not even a significant election issue.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#68

Post by Amezarak »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #64
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US shares intelligence with those governments. In some EU countries it is illegal for the government to spy on its citizens (also see the US pre-9/11), so the US spies on those countries and then relays the info back. Pre-9/11 this is also how the US worked. The UK spied on the US and the US spied on the UK, thus both subverting national laws, they then shared intelligence with one another (which is legal…

In my mind that's conspiracy-theory level claims. Got sources?

This goes all the way back to ECHELON and Five Eyes. If you look up the ECHELON program, you will find documented evidence of exactly that occurring. There is evidence this and similar programs/agreements has been going on since at least WWII.

Even now, it's well-documented and well-understood that all the first-world allied nations have varying degrees of intelligence-sharing relationships with their SIGINT programs. For example, with the NSA, you have the Five Eyes countries, and also Tier 2 countries like Germany.

I tihnk what also holds them back a little is also the fact it's amazingly hypocritical for them to complain too much, because every industrialized country is spying on every other industrialized country, allied or not. Of course, some are bigger targets than others. The US is obviously the biggest target, but there's smaller scale stuff going on too, as between France and Germany. According to Germany, France is the "evil empire" of industrial espionage perpetrated in part through their SIGINT programs.

The focus on the USA, and the NSA, is misleading. The NSA's role is probably comparable to the US government at large's role in world politics, (biggest, most influential) but all other nations are complicit. I don't intend to sound mean, but I feel like the attitude that so many people had in the wake of the Snowden revelations, that spying on allies was unheard of, unexpected, evil, is breathtakingly naive and historically and contextually unaware, and almost like some kind of twisted expression of the stereotypical American arrogance, that only Americans could commit so great an evil. This is an old, old, old game that has always evolved with technology.

I guess I rambled on a bit there. Sorry.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#69

Post by Padding »

pille wrote: post #31
rantanplan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused in just about everything you said. So what do you endorse and what do you mean by "biggest meanest hackers"? How would that fit in a democratic government?

I think if you replace 'hackers' with 'guys' you get the basic definition of government: at some point, a nation picks its 'biggest meanest' (i.e. most capable) guy(s) to protect it and maintain order. Democracy just tries to institutionalize this decision and allow a peaceful reëvaluation every so often. So maybe GP means he wants a well-designed democracy with a strong military, including infosec. Yeah, good idea.

No.. Government is not about picking a better bully than your neighboring nation and beating them into submission.

What government provides is a practically viable method (kludge?) to reaching consensus on issues where other more reliable methods (like science) fail to do so.

Should "we" build up an army and enslave our neighbor nations or should we rather build up and industry and fabricate something all of them want to have (but can't produce themselves) and sell it to them for horrendous prices? Both alternatives have the same effect, but which one is "better"?

Science can't provide conclusive answers here .. so what do we do instead? In the past we'd ask some designated mastermind deriving his legitimacy from god or a certain bloodline and such. These days we tend to vote on who that mastermind should be or create institutions that allow for more direct control by the nations subjects.

But nothing of this has to do with picking a bigger bully. How big of a meanie you (as a nation) want to be is entirely orthogonal to being a government (or a democracy).

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#70

Post by Spooky23 »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #64
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US shares intelligence with those governments. In some EU countries it is illegal for the government to spy on its citizens (also see the US pre-9/11), so the US spies on those countries and then relays the info back. Pre-9/11 this is also how the US worked. The UK spied on the US and the US spied on the UK, thus both subverting national laws, they then shared intelligence with one another (which is legal…

In my mind that's conspiracy-theory level claims. Got sources?

Google "Five Eyes". The Wikipedia article has a bunch of sources to this particular issue in recent times.

Also, IIRC this has been talked about for a long time... I'm pretty sure I read about this practice initially in the 80s/90s, probably in reference to Libyan sponsored terrorism in Europe.

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