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Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

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Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#31

Post by pille »

rantanplan wrote: post #17
bayesianhorse wrote: post #10

My current opinion on government hacking is, that I actually want democratic government to be the biggest meanest hackers of them all. The alternative, unfortunately, is that either organized crime or non-democratic governments (or a combination of both) would be the biggest meanest hackers. And hacking doesn't really scale. Mass surveillance just through attacking individuals with malware isn't possible, because of…

I am confused in just about everything you said. So what do you endorse and what do you mean by "biggest meanest hackers"? How would that fit in a democratic government?

I think if you replace 'hackers' with 'guys' you get the basic definition of government: at some point, a nation picks its 'biggest meanest' (i.e. most capable) guy(s) to protect it and maintain order. Democracy just tries to institutionalize this decision and allow a peaceful reëvaluation every so often.

So maybe GP means he wants a well-designed democracy with a strong military, including infosec. Yeah, good idea.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#32

Post by Wilya »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #20
peterkelly wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, they could concentrate on defense rather than offense

How can they provide adequate defenses without having the best offensive hackers? At the very least, penetration testing is an indispensable tool in cyber security. Also, surveillance of criminal and terrorist organizations without offensive capabilities is impossible.

I have a hard time seeing how spying on European officials will help identify criminals and terrorists.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#33

Post by bigfoot »

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

There are also additional clues pointing to Regin being a Five Eyes tool: In the QWERTY code, there are numerous references to cricket, a sport that enjoys extreme popularity in the Commonwealth. Given the relative popularity of cricket in the US vs. the rest of the world, it's more likely that this was written outside the NSA.

Given that a NSA dev team was well aware that the spyware would be discovered and disassembled at some point in time, it was reasonable to intentionally leave behind evidence that points to countries other than the US. I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'd not take the cricket references too serious either.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#34

Post by raverbashing »

virtualritz wrote: post #25
bayesianhorse wrote: post #10

My current opinion on government hacking is, that I actually want democratic government to be the biggest meanest hackers of them all. The alternative, unfortunately, is that either organized crime or non-democratic governments (or a combination of both) would be the biggest meanest hackers. And hacking doesn't really scale. Mass surveillance just through attacking individuals with malware isn't possible, because of…

Define 'democratic government'. This term is a euphemism nowadays in the West. E.g.: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/17/chomsky_the_u_s_behaves_noth...

I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country...

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#35

Post by gtirloni »

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

There are also additional clues pointing to Regin being a Five Eyes tool: In the QWERTY code, there are numerous references to cricket, a sport that enjoys extreme popularity in the Commonwealth. Given the relative popularity of cricket in the US vs. the rest of the world, it's more likely that this was written outside the NSA.

I think disinformation is one of the pillars in their line of work. For all we care, they could have written references to whatever is popular in North Korea.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#36

Post by gondo »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #22
kgarten wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. The NSA is not a democratic government ... It's not elected by the people. The US people have no control over the NSA. There are also good reasons to argue that the US is not democratic: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

The U.S. government, for all its weaknesses, is providing their citizens with freedom and liberties as good or better than most other countries. The NSA does have democratic oversight. It is controlled by the executive, legislative and judicative branches of the system. That this control is inadequate in our view, doesn't matter for the question whether or not the NSA is part of a democratic system.

let me guess, you are american

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#37

Post by rantanplan »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #19
rantanplan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused in just about everything you said. So what do you endorse and what do you mean by "biggest meanest hackers"? How would that fit in a democratic government?

It depends on just who you are attacking. Terrorist groups, criminal organizations or criminal individuals are legitimate targets of a cyber attack, just as they could and should be put under conventional surveillance. If government agencies attack ordinary citizens or companies, without legitimate authorization, than it's not a problem of means or tools but rather a problem with democratic or judicial oversight on t…

Ok, but you omit a crucial step, that I kinda need an answer to further understand.

In order to attack(successfully), they employeed various techniques; from weakening security systems and protocols, to actively endorse weak crypto schemes. What about these? And for the sake of the argument, let's say that they have the best of intentions and they don't plan to use those against law abiding citizens.

Do you agree with these actions?

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#38

Post by cyphunk »

thu wrote: post #30
hluska wrote: post #12

Nothing like waking up to a story that makes you feel embarrassed by your citizenship. Good job Canada, you're making a Maple Leaf a dangerous symbol all around the world. When I was a youngster, being Canadian meant that Incould travel anywhere and be fine. Granted, there was a > 50% probability that the other Canadians I would meet were really Americans, but that was nothing. My country had a solid international re…

Not related to this thread, but to your comment about the Maple Leaf: http://www.newsweek.com/why-rebel-groups-love-toyota-hilux-7... Edit: Sorry, I didn't see it was paywalled (I'm not a subscriber of that site). I now see that it counts your visits and disable itself after a few times. "Private" browsing seems to solve the problem.

that link is mostly paywalled. do you have another source?

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#39

Post by teamhappy »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #7

If so, can the people and companies that were affected file a class action?

Class action might be a solution for US citizens. The problem with malware though is that you end up infecting a whole lot of innocent civilians all over the place, which the people in Den Haag have slightly mixed feelings about. To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed that these cases never end up in international courts. The rules we have in place seem pretty clear to me.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#40

Post by danesparza »

thomasmarcelis wrote: post #28
madaxe_again wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're right, belgacom - it was all just reported at about the same time.

There is more than a year difference between the two

Agreed - more than a year between the two. Here is the full rundown if you're interested:

Regin details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regin_(malware)

Sony hack details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Entertainment_hac...

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