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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#101
post #94
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was ignorant of the term, but am unsure how it is different than other country's child services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway...

Norway has way too many similar cases, for such small country of only 5 million people. Barnevernet also puts artificial obstructions for adoption by biological relatives, such as grandparents. As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik.

> As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik.

Hang on a minute. Here in the US, my tax dollars support your children. WIC and Food Stamps and school lunch programs which come from my tax dollars ensure your infants and children do not starve in case something happens to you or your income. As a parent, you get to claim tax deductions which means more money out of my pocket to cover for the loss of tax revenue. As I see it, your children are not your property. The children belong to the community at large. They are my investment. If you are damaging our collective investment, I very much expect you to be relieved of your duties to take care of my investment.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#102
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The fu…

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

"TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review"

No, the TSA's job is to prevent prohibited items from being brought into the secure area of the airport and onto a plane.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I start with the assumption that "All Cops Are Bastards." It may be prejudicial, but it makes me think before I do anything that anyone could mistake for criminal activity. If this makes the "cops who care" uncomfortable, they should put the blame squarely on the "cops who don't care" not on me.

This sort of assumption is prejudicial, but it's the sort of cynicism that leads to erring on the side of caution and making sure your rights are respected. You can't trust most people, cops are no exception. In that regard, it might be viewed as pragmatic.

I am sorry you're getting downvoted but this is absolutely right. Remember to never talk to the police. This sounds a little sarcastic but I promise you that it is not. Never, ever "help" the police, even if you are not a suspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

The police do not have a duty to protect you [nytimes]. Why do you have a duty to help them?

[nytimes] http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

(If you intend to downvote, please kindly leave a note as to why I am wrong.)

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#104
post #78
post #7

I'm a bit worried about my trip to the US in the spring. I'm going to make a point of having a hair cut, not carrying any suspicious books, cultivate a super submissive nature against authority figures (of which I carry a well-deserved suspicion) and practive my TSA-smile. Shouldn't have to be that way, but I really don't want to give any indication I am anything but White Bread.

Exactly how often do you go out of your way to aggravate police, customs and immigration officials in other countries?

You don't need to do anything of the sort for customs and immigration officials in America to panic. They're a fidgety bunch, and your greatest mistake may be to have a 'Muslim' name.

This happened to my parents, surgeons in their late 50s who travelled together visiting family in the UK and Canada having no trouble. My dad (having a name that is pretty Christian) passed immigration at the Canada/US border just fine. My mum (having a name that is pretty Muslim) had her immigration official's computer stop working and she was detained for hours. They did let my dad join her, so I guess we should be thankful for that. They had exactly the same itinerary and were eventually released with no explanation.

So excuse me if I don't buy the idea that you have to antagonize people.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#105
post #53
post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Must be a setup right? I've taken several years of French in college, never had a vocab set quite like that! Another odd detail, TSA didn't randomly read a stack of paper in his carry-on. TFA says "handed cards to the agent" after being asked to empty pockets. How is a TSA lacky supposed to NOT alert a supervisor in that situation? The only thing more ridiculous would be after handing the deck of flash cards directly…

Don't you think it's more likely to want to have a conversation about terrorism with people that speak arabic, especially in the US where it must be a constant burden for the Arabs after 9/11? On a 80 words deck having 10 words related to a very relevant news and discussion topic strikes you as weird? You didn't learn how to say bomb, kill, kidnap etc after years of learning french?

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#106
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

"TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review" No, the TSA's job is to prevent prohibited items from being brought into the secure area of the airport and onto a plane.

Citation provided: http://www.tsa.gov/about-tsa/layers-security

Note I said it's their job -- obviously they are not effective at it.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#107
post #2

"Five years ago, the Philadelphia police thought that carrying Arabic-language flashcards was enough to warrant the arrest of an innocent traveler." From a norwegian standpoint, where police are not allowed to wear guns, it's fascinating to see how the answer to security problems is more police, harder prison sentences and more violence. What about increasing happiness? In northern Ireland they eventually got rid of…

I don't know that it's worthwhile to compare small countries with ethnically homogenous populations, homogenous communities, different social values, and citizens with reduced access to weaponry to a large, ethnically diverse nation, with diverse and segregated communities, with different social values and history, and citizens with greater access to firearms.

> I don't know that it's worthwhile to compare small countries with ethnically homogenous populations, homogenous communities, different social values, and citizens with reduced access to weaponry to a large, ethnically diverse nation, with diverse and segregated communities, with different social values and history, and citizens with greater access to firearms.

Your total lack of knowledge about Northern Ireland is showing. Try walking down the Falls Road or Shankill in Belfast, and see if you see a homogenous community (for bonus points, go into any bar in the area flying either a Irish or UK flag proudly, and see if you find much agreement about segregation or firearms). I had a friend in school in Ireland whose family moved from Belfast (in late 1990s!) because he and his brothers were badly beaten for being Catholic. But I'm sure that was a mistake, as they were an ethnically homogenous population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#108
post #96
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

> Sorry for missing your flight but I do expect TSA to flag me if I literally hand the agent a stack of cards with "bomb" and "terrorist" written on them. They are just words, it is not OK to "flag" anyone for carrying that around. Next thing you know we'll be "flagged" for reading Rousseau (whose works were a major influence on Robespierre, a renown "terrorist") or Karl Marx, a guy whose works were appropriated by a…

Marx's works were not appropriated, they were taken seriously, and to their full conclusion.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#109
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway has way too many similar cases, for such small country of only 5 million people. Barnevernet also puts artificial obstructions for adoption by biological relatives, such as grandparents. As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik.

> As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik. Hang on a minute. Here in the US, my tax dollars support your children. WIC and Food Stamps and school lunch programs which come from my tax dollars ensure your infants and children do not starve in case something happens to you or your income. As a parent, you get to claim tax deductions which means more money out of my pocket to cover f…

Wow, this is incredibly disgusting. To claim that children belong to the community is full-blown communalism, and the end of individual rights. This is one fine distinction away from claiming that we are all property of the State.

Parents have an obligation to protect their children, and you are attacking that.

Taxation is not an "investment" and does not confer rights. It is non-contractual; it is merely force; it is not entered into voluntarily. You cannot start any valid argument with "Taxation, therefore..." If you don't like paying for WIC and Food Stamps, advocate against those taxes.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#110
post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

> suspecion ... training

I don't think that those two words had anything to do with the situation! Sorry 'bout that! And, in an important sense, the training was right on target! Again, sorry 'bout that!

It's called CYA or cover your ass. Or, what would, could it look like to a higher up who worried what it could, would look like to a reporter and what it would, could look like to someone who wanted to make a big stink, create a gotcha that later they might be able to use, etc. Or, the poor, lowly TSA agent had to think:

"My supervisor is under a lot of pressure and has me under a lot of pressure. If he hears that I didn't regard that passenger as suspicious, then it could be my job. Letting the passenger board the plane had no good upside for me and possibly a big downside. Calling the cops had a big upside for me, took the hot potato out of my hands, and had no downside for me. So, dirt simple decision: Call the cops, get rid of the issue and threat to my job, and get back to inspecting swag some 4 year old girl got from her trip to Disneyland."

Or, it's all a stage play, commonly called security theater. The passengers have to play along, look like middle America tourists to Disneyland, a salesman going to a sales convention where he will eat and drink too much, or other cases of a common man in the streets. Or, first rule of such a sick, paranoid social situation -- don't stick out. Instead, fit in, conform, go along with the crowd. Else will need someone with a lot of authority, power, rationality, integrity, etc. to bail out your poor, suffering back side, and that can take a long time.

Did the SCOTUS ever pass out such advice? Likely not.

Is that what the US Constitution says? Nope.

Is there a gap between reality and formality? Yup, wider than the Grand Canyon.

Or, to paraphrase a common statement: "It's not good enough to be innocent. You also have to look innocent."

Have to understand that TSA, police, etc. can get away with total nonsense behavior at least occasionally and can say "My long experience has taught me that he was suspicious" and get away with that.

Is such nonsense TSA, police behavior fair, just, reasonable, constitutional, objective, etc.? Nope. Real? Yup. Do I like it? Nope. Can I do anything about it? Not much. What can someone do? Try to stay out of airports. Try to stay out of neighborhoods where the police like to beat up on people. Fit in.

The training? The TSA agents and police likely do understand such things. One of the little social secrets in the US, call it social intelligence or understanding of Organizational Behavior 101, is that the citizens have to understand such things also.

Yup, my blood boils, too. But I haven't been to an airport since 9/11, and I'm not eager to go again.

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