Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

aclu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 238 posts

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#91

Post by anaphor »

kghose wrote: post #77
zaroth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Finally, some one with additional details I was waiting to hear. If they hauled everyone learning Arabic off the false positive rate should be sky high. I wonder, just wonder, if this person was an "activist". You know, someone who tries to go positive on sufficient features of the detector to pass the threshold.

The false-positive rate is already sky high because the probability of any given person being a terrorist is extremely low, and because of Bayes' theorem that makes profiling generate a lot of false positives.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#92

Post by mkal_tsr »

mathetic wrote: post #16

> "Do you know who did 9/11?" Taken totally aback, I answered: "Osama Bin Laden." Then she asked me if I knew what language Osama Bin Laden spoke. "Arabic," I replied. "So do you see why these cards are suspicious?" she finished. As horrific as the situation, I think we can all enjoy the humorous nature of the conversation above. Lack of shame and intelligence is surreal.

I've heard he drank water, we should look into banning water. It's the only way!

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#93

Post by goodcanadian »

zaroth wrote: post #67
mikeash wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make the case that extra scrutiny is legitimate here. But being actually arrested has specific requirements which clearly were not met.

Technically I think he was never arrested. He was detained until the unit arrived to evaluate him. After that it took 30 minutes to release him with no charges. Part of the time he was handcuffed. The handcuffing was absolutely unnecessary but not sure if it's mandatory protocol when making the detention? $25k and a good story later I think Nick made out. Edit: $25k went straight to the ACLU. I apologize, Nick did no…

As I just commented elsewhere, from a legal stand point, if they detain you for even a moment where you are not free to go, you have been arrested. For example, technically, a traffic stop is an arrest.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#94

Post by jkot »

pgrote wrote: post #82
jkot wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Norway is shinning beacon of humanity. Except barnevernet which has even lamer excuses and is for life, not 5 hours.

I was ignorant of the term, but am unsure how it is different than other country's child services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway...

Norway has way too many similar cases, for such small country of only 5 million people. Barnevernet also puts artificial obstructions for adoption by biological relatives, such as grandparents.

As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#95

Post by ecdavis »

yabatopia wrote: post #23
mathetic wrote: post #16

> "Do you know who did 9/11?" Taken totally aback, I answered: "Osama Bin Laden." Then she asked me if I knew what language Osama Bin Laden spoke. "Arabic," I replied. "So do you see why these cards are suspicious?" she finished. As horrific as the situation, I think we can all enjoy the humorous nature of the conversation above. Lack of shame and intelligence is surreal.

"Do you know who did 9/11? Osama Bin Laden! And did you know that Osama Bin Laden had shoes? So you see why your shoes are suspicious and we have to arrest you?"

"It is cheap, basic and widely available around the world. Yet the Casio F-91W digital watch was declared to be "the sign of al-Qaida" and a contributing factor to continued detention of prisoners by the analysts stationed at Guantánamo Bay.

Briefing documents used to train staff in assessing the threat level of new detainees advise that possession of the F-91W – available online for as little as £4 – suggests the wearer has been trained in bomb making by al-Qaida in Afghanistan."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/25/guantanamo-file...

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#96

Post by paganel »

zaroth wrote: post #60
hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

> Sorry for missing your flight but I do expect TSA to flag me if I literally hand the agent a stack of cards with "bomb" and "terrorist" written on them.

They are just words, it is not OK to "flag" anyone for carrying that around. Next thing you know we'll be "flagged" for reading Rousseau (whose works were a major influence on Robespierre, a renown "terrorist") or Karl Marx, a guy whose works were appropriated by a lot of bad guys who killed a lot of people in the 20th century.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#97

Post by ambrood »

jkot wrote: post #94
pgrote wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was ignorant of the term, but am unsure how it is different than other country's child services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway...

Norway has way too many similar cases, for such small country of only 5 million people. Barnevernet also puts artificial obstructions for adoption by biological relatives, such as grandparents. As someone said, accused parents in such cases have less rights than Breivik.

I recall a diplomatic incident with India when they tried to take away custody of Indian citizen children from their parents and put them in foster care or something.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#98

Post by njpg »

afiedler wrote: post #89
pmorici wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a lame outcome. If there is no admission or finding of wrong doing it really feels like there was no accountability whatsoever. The $25k is a rounding error and looks more like a token payment than anything else. They don't even have to make that paragraph part of their permanent police training. edit: How did they manage to drag this out for 5 years and still not have an actual judge or jury rule on this.

(Disclaimer: IANAL) Reading through the history of the case[1], it looks like the District Court ruled that the Federal TSA officers involved were entitled to qualified immunity under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The reasoning was that the TSA followed appropriated procedures and wasn't responsible for the longer (few hour) detention by the Philly Police. In my opinion, that seems reasonable. The TSA only detained hi…

(IANAL) The thing is the ACLU only has leverage against the Federal gov't if they pursue a settlement - the federal gov't doesn't want to see the agents deposed. Even if they have immunity, it'd make them look bad. If this went to trial, that leverage would be gone. So, the settlement deal gets them point 2 on that list, instead of just (potentially more) money.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#99

Post by zaroth »

yourad_io wrote: post #75
zaroth wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

> At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Come on. Half of these are basic vocabulary and the other half are contextually relevant. Grab a random newspaper; you'll likely find 90% of them somewhere.

"Contextually relevant!" That's a good one. :-) I took several years of [French] foreign language, never did I ever learn those vocab words. What a world we live in.

  "Ou est les toilettes?"
  "Un pain au chocolat et un cafe s'il vous plait."
  ...
  "Est-ce une bombe dans votre sac à dos?"
It's a fantastic Onion-worthy title, but IMO Nick was inconvenienced for his lack of critical thinking skills on this one.

By comparison, a Brooklyn man gets $75k for being dragged out of his car and choked. [1]

[1] - http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nyc-settles-lawsuit-75000...

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#100

Post by ambrood »

gaius wrote: post #37
coldtea wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like Scotland, Ireland plays the victim card very well to extort money from the English. Yeah, if only the British haven't raped their freedoms, they'd be playing the victim totally virtually.

Look up the Barnett Formula and the West Lothian Question. The history of the UK is the history of the exploitation of the English.

Oh c'mon. The parliament in Westminster is effectively the English parliament, the MPs from outside England notwithstanding.
Post reply on HN