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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#81

Post by Zigurd »

anomalous wrote: post #20
thomasfl wrote: post #2

"Five years ago, the Philadelphia police thought that carrying Arabic-language flashcards was enough to warrant the arrest of an innocent traveler." From a norwegian standpoint, where police are not allowed to wear guns, it's fascinating to see how the answer to security problems is more police, harder prison sentences and more violence. What about increasing happiness? In northern Ireland they eventually got rid of…

I don't know that it's worthwhile to compare small countries with ethnically homogenous populations, homogenous communities, different social values, and citizens with reduced access to weaponry to a large, ethnically diverse nation, with diverse and segregated communities, with different social values and history, and citizens with greater access to firearms.

> homogenous populations

What I think you mean to say is "populations that are treated with equal discretion and respect by police, and, when they are very young, by school discipline."

Otherwise someone might think you are a racist.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#82

Post by pgrote »

jkot wrote: post #38
thomasfl wrote: post #2

"Five years ago, the Philadelphia police thought that carrying Arabic-language flashcards was enough to warrant the arrest of an innocent traveler." From a norwegian standpoint, where police are not allowed to wear guns, it's fascinating to see how the answer to security problems is more police, harder prison sentences and more violence. What about increasing happiness? In northern Ireland they eventually got rid of…

Yeah, Norway is shinning beacon of humanity. Except barnevernet which has even lamer excuses and is for life, not 5 hours.

I was ignorant of the term, but am unsure how it is different than other country's child services.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_(Norway...

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#83

Post by ninguem2 »

yourad_io wrote: post #68
zaroth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The fu…

If one's goal in learning Arabic were to become an intelligence agent at the NSA, CIA,... (which are probably the largest employers of Arabic translators in the US) wouldn't this be the natural choice of vocabulary to be studying?

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#84

Post by sarciszewski »

officemonkey wrote: post #69
chrislgrigg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of the stretch. Philadelphia is a complex city with complex problems and its police department reflects this. It has plenty of problems but it also has a lot of cops who care.

I start with the assumption that "All Cops Are Bastards." It may be prejudicial, but it makes me think before I do anything that anyone could mistake for criminal activity. If this makes the "cops who care" uncomfortable, they should put the blame squarely on the "cops who don't care" not on me.

This sort of assumption is prejudicial, but it's the sort of cynicism that leads to erring on the side of caution and making sure your rights are respected. You can't trust most people, cops are no exception. In that regard, it might be viewed as pragmatic.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#86

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

pjc50 wrote: post #31
anomalous wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that it's worthwhile to compare small countries with ethnically homogenous populations, homogenous communities, different social values, and citizens with reduced access to weaponry to a large, ethnically diverse nation, with diverse and segregated communities, with different social values and history, and citizens with greater access to firearms.

thomasfl's comment did point out Northern Ireland, whose communities were so segregated there's a mini Berlin wall in part of the city ("Peace Line"), and where there's plenty of firearms and also high explosives. Disarmament was a critical and controversial part of the peace process.

After reading your comment and it's parent I had this thought:

Whereas the case for firearm ownership in the US is ostensibly to call to arms a militia to overthrow a tyrannical government, what has actually happened is the populace are too busy shooting each other to realise tyranny.

Although, I think, to believe what I just wrote requires a bunch of biases and leaps of faith with regard to rates of violence governmental tyranny. I'm reading Steven Pinker's 'The Better Angels of Our Nature', which is doing a good job of highlighting that, even in the US, violence has decreased over time.

Edit: a word

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#87

Post by tankenmate »

pjc50 wrote: post #31
anomalous wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that it's worthwhile to compare small countries with ethnically homogenous populations, homogenous communities, different social values, and citizens with reduced access to weaponry to a large, ethnically diverse nation, with diverse and segregated communities, with different social values and history, and citizens with greater access to firearms.

thomasfl's comment did point out Northern Ireland, whose communities were so segregated there's a mini Berlin wall in part of the city ("Peace Line"), and where there's plenty of firearms and also high explosives. Disarmament was a critical and controversial part of the peace process.

Actually there are several peace walls in Belfast; and also there are more now than there were during the '70s / '80s.

Also, there are parties on both sides of the divide who are still armed; it's just the largest and most politically engaged groups who are no longer armed.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#89

Post by afiedler »

pmorici wrote: post #51
hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

Seems like a lame outcome. If there is no admission or finding of wrong doing it really feels like there was no accountability whatsoever. The $25k is a rounding error and looks more like a token payment than anything else. They don't even have to make that paragraph part of their permanent police training. edit: How did they manage to drag this out for 5 years and still not have an actual judge or jury rule on this.

(Disclaimer: IANAL)

Reading through the history of the case[1], it looks like the District Court ruled that the Federal TSA officers involved were entitled to qualified immunity under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The reasoning was that the TSA followed appropriated procedures and wasn't responsible for the longer (few hour) detention by the Philly Police. In my opinion, that seems reasonable. The TSA only detained him for 15-30 mins to question him about the cards, then turned him over the the state police.

After that ruling, the parties settled. I'm not sure why the case wasn't pursued further against the Philly Police. It could be that the case wasn't likely to succeed under Pennsylvania law, or maybe the ACLU wasn't interested in continuing to pursue it, since a Pennsylvania precedent wouldn't be a "worthwhile" expenditure of ACLU resources.

[1]: https://www.aclu.org/national-security/george-v-tsa

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#90

Post by goodcanadian »

coin wrote: post #64

He was never arrested but rather detailed.

A common misconception. Police try to make that distinction to avoid complaints, but the fact is that if they stop you for even a moment on the street to talk to you, from a legal point or view, you have been arrested. If you ask if you are free to go, and the answer is not an immediate, "yes," you have been arrested. There are clear rules about when they can do that and how long they can hold you without charge. He was definitely arrested. I'm a bit surprised that he did not win an unlawful confinement suit, but then I don't know all of the details.
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