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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#61

Post by pluma »

thomasfl wrote: post #2

"Five years ago, the Philadelphia police thought that carrying Arabic-language flashcards was enough to warrant the arrest of an innocent traveler." From a norwegian standpoint, where police are not allowed to wear guns, it's fascinating to see how the answer to security problems is more police, harder prison sentences and more violence. What about increasing happiness? In northern Ireland they eventually got rid of…

But making sad people happier imposes on the liberty of happy people to be happier than the sad people.

Something something nanny state.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#62

Post by pluma »

existencebox wrote: post #48
chrislgrigg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of the stretch. Philadelphia is a complex city with complex problems and its police department reflects this. It has plenty of problems but it also has a lot of cops who care.

Growing up in Philly, that was not the perception of the kids who got thrown into dumpsters during a police raid on a prom. This is anecdotal, but in one of the hotbeds of police/citizen conflict, I don't think it serves a purpose to try and pull the "there are always good ones" card. Yes, there are, but until the systemic problems are dealt with they aren't the ones having an impact.

There were good Wehrmacht soldiers, too. Can't blame Allied soldiers for shooting at them, though.

I'm saying that as a German, mind you.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#63

Post by mikeash »

DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

You can make the case that extra scrutiny is legitimate here. But being actually arrested has specific requirements which clearly were not met.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#65

Post by [deleted] »

gaius wrote: post #37
coldtea wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like Scotland, Ireland plays the victim card very well to extort money from the English. Yeah, if only the British haven't raped their freedoms, they'd be playing the victim totally virtually.

Look up the Barnett Formula and the West Lothian Question. The history of the UK is the history of the exploitation of the English.

[deleted]

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#66

Post by pluma »

yabatopia wrote: post #23
mathetic wrote: post #16

> "Do you know who did 9/11?" Taken totally aback, I answered: "Osama Bin Laden." Then she asked me if I knew what language Osama Bin Laden spoke. "Arabic," I replied. "So do you see why these cards are suspicious?" she finished. As horrific as the situation, I think we can all enjoy the humorous nature of the conversation above. Lack of shame and intelligence is surreal.

"Do you know who did 9/11? Osama Bin Laden! And did you know that Osama Bin Laden had shoes? So you see why your shoes are suspicious and we have to arrest you?"

Add one more step and it sounds like something out of Monty Python.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#67

Post by zaroth »

mikeash wrote: post #63
DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

You can make the case that extra scrutiny is legitimate here. But being actually arrested has specific requirements which clearly were not met.

Technically I think he was never arrested. He was detained until the unit arrived to evaluate him. After that it took 30 minutes to release him with no charges. Part of the time he was handcuffed. The handcuffing was absolutely unnecessary but not sure if it's mandatory protocol when making the detention? $25k and a good story later I think Nick made out.

Edit: $25k went straight to the ACLU. I apologize, Nick did not "make out". @goodcanadian is right, he was arrested, but not charged.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#68

Post by yourad_io »

zaroth wrote: post #60
hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Any source for these notable facts?

> It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief.

Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right?

EDIT: Found the source[1]. The full context is:

> The flashcards included every day words and phrases such as “day before yesterday,” “fat,” “thin,” “really,” “nice,” “sad,” “cheap,” “summer,” “pink,” and “friendly.” However, they also contained such words as: “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.”

Doesn't sound like he handed the TSA agent 10 suspicious flashcards, which is the point you're making, but rather that these words are as relevant in a Middle-Eastern context as they are in an English context.

So, this guy is guilty of not censoring his flashcards pre-emptively. Yes, I see your PoV now.

[1] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/george-v-reh...

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#69

Post by officemonkey »

chrislgrigg wrote: post #40
joesmo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is America (and specifically Philadelphia where the police is especially corrupt). The goal of police is not to stop terrorism or crime but simply to fill up the jails and create profit for themselves and others by reaching or passing their quotas and making high-profile arrests. And sometimes, ad demonstrated by recent NYPD events, they don't even do their jobs and still get paid. Crime prevention and offender…

This is a bit of the stretch. Philadelphia is a complex city with complex problems and its police department reflects this. It has plenty of problems but it also has a lot of cops who care.

I start with the assumption that "All Cops Are Bastards." It may be prejudicial, but it makes me think before I do anything that anyone could mistake for criminal activity.

If this makes the "cops who care" uncomfortable, they should put the blame squarely on the "cops who don't care" not on me.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#70

Post by zaroth »

yourad_io wrote: post #68
zaroth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The fu…

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here.

There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller.

Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting that handing these cards directly to a TSA agent will get you red flagged. Does that really surprise you? Basically Nick did everything possible to be the absolutely weirdest guy TSA saw that month. If they don't flag this, what do they flag?

Even the alleged line of questioning by the TSA officer isn't even necessarily that bad depending on how you imagine it;

  Agent: "You know who did 9/11?"
  Nick:  "Osama bin Laden."
  Agent: "Do you know what language he spoke?"
  Nick:  "Arabic."
  [Agent: rifling through flash cards saying "Bomb", "Terrorist", "To Kidnap",
          incredulous look on her face... Shrugs looking a Nick]
  Agent: "Do you see why these cards are suspicious?!"
Note the last sentence in the court documents does not start with "So". Anyway, no one in the entire case was arguing that TSA did anything wrong, just the police detention that followed.

Edit: Look, it's a really great headline, and just reading the ACLU post initially got my blood boiling. Then I read the first few pages of court documents and my opinion moderated quite a bit. So I thought the discussion would benefit from a more complete airing of the facts. Sorry if it doesn't fit the narrative!

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