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When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

theatlantic.com

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Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#81

Post by charlesdm »

Iv wrote: post #9

I work for more than a decade now and I still am unsure about what rule to follow. Here are a few things that I have seen happening: I once believed in transparency about that. I told my salary to a friend I just helped to get hired in the company where I already had a few years of experience. Upon hearing my higher salary, he immediately went to my boss to ask for a raise. Due to an incredible incompetence of the HR…

Was the CEO a shareholder?

Sometimes CEO/CTO/COO salaries are distorted (e.g. artificially high or low), depending on if they are a significant shareholder and if they are getting dividends or capital gains from stock.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#82

Post by rcxdude »

alimoeeny wrote: post #2

I understand that this is against the "wisdom", but I always wanted to build a compensation-transparent-company. In which it is open (at least internally) how much everybody makes (including equity). And people have ways to change their compensation over longish periods of time and the ratio of cash / equity.

I know of at least two companies (in the UK) which do this. They are fairly small companies, however.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#83

Post by IshKebab »

Karunamon wrote: post #71
smm2000 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

18% number is bullshit debunked many times. When you control for occupation, working hours, etc between male and female - the difference in pay is only 2-3%

Not that I don't believe you, but could you link to said debunking?

I can't be bothered to find it, but I remember reading the same thing. I'm sure a short search will turn it up if you're interested in reading it.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#84

Post by gambiting »

I work for a large games developer(one of the largest ones in the world in fact), and the salaries are completely taboo. No one will say how much they are paid, no one will say what bonuses they've got, nothing. When I asked the HR manager what I can expect to be making if I advance higher up, the answer was "that depends", and when I asked for an estimate they said they can't give one. I absolutely love the job, it's the best thing ever - but I honestly don't understand the salary secrecy.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#85

Post by skrebbel »

tormeh wrote: post #47
crazy1van wrote: post #24

This article seems to basically say its already illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay (NLRA 1935) and it is certainly illegal to pay someone less based on race or sex (Equal Pay Act, and others) but the solution to wage discrimination is pass more laws that make it illegal-er. I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for…

A solution is to just make everyone's tax reports public. The worst that happens is you get tasteless websites ranking who earns and owns most in your area. Really, that's it. Norway tried it and it got a little too tasteless for our politicians, so now it's a government website thing where anyone you view can see that you've viewed them. You still get some cool stats, though: http://www.dn.no/skattelister/#!/Norge/2…

Wow. How does that mesh with your infamous "Janteloven"? (a common piece of North European culture where people tend to despise others who visibly do better than average - not just money btw)

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#86

Post by bjourne »

justincormack wrote: post #22
alimoeeny wrote: post #2

I understand that this is against the "wisdom", but I always wanted to build a compensation-transparent-company. In which it is open (at least internally) how much everybody makes (including equity). And people have ways to change their compensation over longish periods of time and the ratio of cash / equity.

Both Sweden and Norway publish everyone's tax payments.

Yes, but the numbers are always delayed two years. So today, I could look up what someone paid in tax in 2013 if I wanted. But it's just the total taxation amount for that year and doesnt tell you anything in detal. So if you had that number you could roughly estimate what someone earned by dividing with about 32% (the median tax rate). But due to tax deductions, sick days, vacation, pension fund deposits etc your salary guess would be very fuzzy.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#87

Post by mabbo »

tormeh wrote: post #47
crazy1van wrote: post #24

This article seems to basically say its already illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay (NLRA 1935) and it is certainly illegal to pay someone less based on race or sex (Equal Pay Act, and others) but the solution to wage discrimination is pass more laws that make it illegal-er. I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for…

A solution is to just make everyone's tax reports public. The worst that happens is you get tasteless websites ranking who earns and owns most in your area. Really, that's it. Norway tried it and it got a little too tasteless for our politicians, so now it's a government website thing where anyone you view can see that you've viewed them. You still get some cool stats, though: http://www.dn.no/skattelister/#!/Norge/2…

In Canada, all public sector employees making more than $100,000 have their names and salaries published by the Government. But they don't adjust for inflation. In another decade or two, literally all public employees will have their salaries published.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#88

Post by paulhauggis »

If all salary was displayed publicly it wouldn't help the employee. It would take almost all negotiating abilities away (a senior developer with 5 years of experience will be paid the same rate as a senior developer with 10 years because companies don't want unhappy employees and people with the same titles will be upset they are not paid the same rate) and allow many companies to legally collude and pay similar rates (which will be the lowest they can get away with).

For the individual, not having public salary works great because you really do have negotiating power. I no longer work for anyone, but when I did, I would regularly ask for a higher wage at my next company for essentially the same position.

If my next company knows that all other companies in the industry are paying 20% less for my position, why would they pay me more?

I've also heard stories from Sweden where larger companies will pull tax returns of the other companies (and employees) they are doing business with and will base their contracts on this information being a regular practice(giving lower rates because they know the company is making more money. Or even not dealing with the company at all because they are so small).

I've never understood why smart people want to willingly give the more powerful in this world even more tools that will work against them.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#90

Post by odonnellryan »

baby wrote: post #89

Take a look at buffer: https://open.bufferapp.com/introducing-open-salaries-at-buff... all salaries are public in a spreadsheet. _YOU_ can see what everyone is getting paid. I think it's pretty interesting.

Does this include bonuses?
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