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New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

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Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#251

Post by returnofthejedi »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WASr5-mS238

But do we know how this ends?

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#252

Post by grecy »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #219
alecco wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, Obama and US congress made it clear we foreign people are just fair game for targeting. At least I'm lucky not to live in a country where targeted assassinations are going on. Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse. The main reason is power and control. Corporate espionage and controlling US-unfriendly political movements is very likely the main goal.

> Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse. Terrorism is indeed very real, and is happening all the time. Hundreds of acts of terror have been committed in the years since 9/11, resulting in deaths of thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children. They those acts have pretty much 0 media coverage, and no one is doing anything to stop them. The US is free to keep on terrorizing civilian populations ar…

And the US has killed tens of thousands of civilians in the middle east.

They're terrorists too.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#253

Post by kaybe »

pferde wrote: post #246
angersock wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that the public interest and the national interest are not one and the same?

But shouldn't it be? At least USA has this weird motto for its government: "of the people, by the people, for the people".

The affected public is not just in the US, considering us citizens of (even) allied countries are fair game. The motto you cite probably refers to just US citizens.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#254

Post by bkurtz13 »

grecy wrote: post #252
TeMPOraL wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse. Terrorism is indeed very real, and is happening all the time. Hundreds of acts of terror have been committed in the years since 9/11, resulting in deaths of thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children. They those acts have pretty much 0 media coverage, and no one is doing anything to stop them. The US is free to keep on terrorizing civilian populations ar…

And the US has killed tens of thousands of civilians in the middle east. They're terrorists too.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he is alluding to, judging by the link.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#255

Post by lawnchair_larry »

tacoman wrote: post #168
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

I read this post a dozen times. As a sysadmin for a sizable ISP in a non-US/UK country, the Belgacom story has haunted me. Is this the first time you've talked about it?

My story isn't about me. It's a hypothetical based on things that have actually been done to someone else.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#256

Post by happyscrappy »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #255
tacoman wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this post a dozen times. As a sysadmin for a sizable ISP in a non-US/UK country, the Belgacom story has haunted me. Is this the first time you've talked about it?

My story isn't about me. It's a hypothetical based on things that have actually been done to someone else.

Taken as gospel and voted to the top by the gullible, good stuff.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#257

Post by brennannovak »

amirmc wrote: post #247
happyscrappy wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drones, contrary to popular belief, reduce civilian casualties.

Redefining 'civilian' also reduces civilian casualties. "It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent." I don't imagine anyone cares to do the posthum…

"Terrorist guilty until proven otherwise" horrifying stuff!

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#258

Post by mikegioia »

alecco wrote: post #243
mikegioia wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an account there? I would love to get an invite if so, that site looks really cool.

The introduction tree is a great idea. But lobsters community is junk. If you dare have an opinion against their hivemind you get donwvoted to oblivion. It's like a clique took over. Reddit had a similar problem with truthers taking over discourse at the beginning, luckily it went away. Perhaps because there was a popular parody account mocking them all the time (something like 9_11_was_an_inside_job), and that accou…

Dang, that's frustrating. That's exactly what I was hoping against, having any for of hivemind or clique.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#259

Post by dreamfactory2 »

srj wrote: post #160
krapp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably right. No need to consider the arguments made by people who don't agree entirely with a particular point of view, or even discuss it at all. They're obviously just shills. Edit: Much of the 'pro NSA' comments I see here seem merely to suggest that not everything the NSA does is evil, and not every disclosure is necessarily useful. As often happens in threads like these, any such comments are dismissed…

The parent poster didn't advise ignoring the pro-NSA opinions but gave his opinion that he felt there might be an astroturf campaign. And why follow a comment agreeing that astroturf campaigns are employed with one slanting those pointing it out as 'spooks' and 'paranoid'? I think it's worth reminding fellow readers that this sort of manipulation happens, and likely on HN.

I haven't seen a political comment thread on a major site which hasn't been polluted with astroturf in the last 2 years or so. Anything regarding Russia is particularly obvious but they are all at it. Then again, when enough regular commenters are just parroting talking points there's not much distinction.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#260

Post by dreamfactory2 »

omphalos wrote: post #169
sroerick wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News is quite astroturfed. Every web forum is.

One approach to countering sock-puppetry as a general problem is with increased transparency. Personally, I think lobste.rs' notion of a user tree is a step in the right direction: https://lobste.rs/u

What about the opposite approach - enforced anonymity so that arguments have to stand on their own merits?
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