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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
151–160 of 359 posts
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#152As the father of a daughter, and someone who normally gets worked up about this sort of thing, I don't see the big deal. I've always viewed comics as equivalent to daytime soap operas made more pornographic to suit teenage male tastes. What value is there in trying to capture this bit of culture for girls? Is it going to lead to higher paying jobs or more equal gender roles in the home? Is it going to lead to greater…
Consider that your impression of comics is coloured by apparently (based on your description) mostly having been shown a single, very limited segment (US-style superhero segments).
Comics are no more limited to that, than TV are limited to daytime soap operas.
The value isn't in trying to get girls to read US-style male-focused superhero stories, but in pointing out that the current comics most widely distributed in the US represents a tiny fraction of what is available.
Imagine what TV would be like if all that was on was daytime soap operas. That's the US comic market. If your TV was like that, would it not be nice to get a wider selection?
> Is it going to lead to greater fulfillment in their personal lives?
Role models - even when depicted in fiction - matters:
http://www.slashgear.com/uhura-recounts-her-epic-talk-with-m...
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
The indie game equivalent are web comics. There are really well made and interesting ones out there, although finding them isn't always easy. For some, printed versions are also available.
Also there is Image, Oni Press and Vertigo.
Humble Comics Bundle 2, 'Image firsts' is currently running a good deal for anyone wanting to check out Image:
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#154I've never understood Americans' obsession with superhero comics. When I was a kid I was reading Asterix[1], Gaston Lagaffe[2], Spirou et Fantasio[3], Lucky Luke[4], Prince Valiant[5], The Phantom[6] and similar stuff. Of course, I've read Superman, Batman and Spiderman also but at least I've had a choice. I can't understand why they don't exist in US, why are the only comic books Americans know superhero comics? [1]…
Whoa, whoa, whoa. America has non-superhero comics, of course - the Sandman series, Y: The Last Man, Preacher, The Walking Dead, American Vampire, etc. ...but Marvel Comics is superheros. Marvel is owned by Disney, and Disney has a huge marketing budget. DC Comics is superheros...owned by Warner Brothers. EDIT: yeah...none of those that I mentioned are remotely for kids. Hmmm.
Allow me to add Elfquest, Cerebus the Aardvark, TMNT, Love and Rockets, and R. Crumb! Not sure if all of those are American or not, but a few of the non-superhero books I (as an American) grew up with.
Of course none of them was ever that widely known (apart from TMNT after it stopped being a comic), so the original point about the US and superheroes certainly remains.
I imagine it's partly due to the legacy of the CCA [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority].
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). No, I am not. I am pointing out there is a correlation between sexualized content and sales numbers in the US today. In fact, I've pointed out elsewhere that perhaps this is one of the reasons the US comic audience is so small: The main…
My guess is that 18-35 year old single men who like superheroes outspend any other demographic by perhaps 10:1, presumably because they have the disposable income to do so.
And this is a huge problem for Marvel and DC, as if they don't address the decline in popularity with children, the US comics market is set for continued decline.
They can't continue to reap the benefits of that market segment if they don't ensure there's ongoing recruitment into it.
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Catering to a narrow but profitable niche is very common advice on HN.
But accelerating the decline of your profitable niche by withdrawing from the niches that fed the creation of your current niche, is probably not good long term thinking. In the case of comics, Marvel and DC has a market of 30's males now because they served the market of kids in the 80's and before. If they want to retain that profitable niche, they better make sure they develop interest amongst younger readers.
Is it declining? It would seem to be growing, but mainly amongst a certain demographic (who happen to have a lot of disposable income).
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, comics are no longer a mainstream entertainment medium compared to movies and videogames, so comic franchises are branching out into these areas.
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you say is like a nice idea, but you have to remember that this is a business. These kinds of comics line the shelves, because they're the ones that sell. Of course, it could very well be that if we had more comics that were more moderate they would sell also, but nobody's willing to take the risk. On top of that, you also require an author that is interested in that - you can't just suck this stuff out of a pen…
This is definitely a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many other nations have a wider audience for comics, but in the US we've followed your advice so long that all the audiences that aren't adolescent males have been pushed away. Which leads to where we are: comic book companies chasing after a tiny fraction of their potential audience, because they can't make comics for anyone else, because not enough others are hbotherin…
I agree.
Take for example the new Ms. Marvel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms._Marvel_%28Kamala_Khan%29
She's a Pakistani superhero that dresses modestly AND her comics sell. Why? Because they're well-written.
But I guess it's easier to draw more boobs than to invest in quality writing.
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#158I agree that there's an awful lot of comics aimed squarely at the adolescent male, but at least in the comic store that my 8 year old daughter likes to go to, there's also a fair amount that she loves. Her favourites at the moment are the Happy Happy Clover series, the Powerpuff Girls and Adventure Time, but there's quite a few others that she's enjoyed as well. That's alongside all of the books and merchandise for t…
(The original site has been HN'd.)
Every "Free Comic Book Day" my family goes down, and my youngest son always finds entirely appropriate things for him. He love Sonic and Mega Man.
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do kids not read comics because they wouldn't be interested in them? Or do they not read them because they're no longer kid-friendly? Which is cause and which is effect?
Well, for the past 10 to 20 years kids have been reading comics less and less because they have TV and the Internet. Kids don't even go outside as much as they used to. Things change, and the comic book companies are adapting as best they can.
Kids have had TV for 60 years.
Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me
#160I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…
> It's ok to have super sexed-up comics in the store, but it's really sad that's all they have.
I've never been to a comics store where that's all they have. Heck, even the comics selection in non-comics stores that carry some comics usually isn't limited to just that.
Its probably the majority of what they have, because the people that buy it are the ones who will by more comics if more of what they want to buy is available, so its the most profitable segment of the market to serve with comics.
> Japanese manga is fully of sexy, weird, objectifying stuff that most people really wouldn't want their kids to see, but go to a bookstore in Japan and you'll also see bookcase after bookcase of manga totally appropriate for all ages with young girls pressing their nose into them. Stories about teenage girls getting picked on at school or trying to meet the right guy or saying stupid things in class. Stories about girls who are in bands and office workers and every possible thing.
I think the big difference here is that the US cultures differs in that it has a very big "picture books are for children who are still learning to read or male adolescents" thing which skews the market for comic books, Japanese culture is different.
> I think the comic industry, video games, tech, and geek culture in general are all going through growing pains as they find adoption in a larger market.
In some cases, I think that's true. In some cases, though, I don't think its so much that the industries are really finding adoption in a larger market, its that people with ideological axes to grind who aren't part of the market are coming to those industries and beating on them for not even trying to find a broader market but instead doing what they've done for a long time to focus on a market that is well-proven.