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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

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Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#121

Post by JohnE008 »

copsarebastards wrote: post #119
JohnE008 wrote: post #112

Breaking news! Father takes 7-year old daughter to a comic shop for older, male audiences. Daughter is offended! Misogyny, etc! Males are creeps! Sexualizing women in comics is offensive to women and therefore immoral! It's not like women can choose not to read such comics. It is a sign that you live a life of highest quality if you can worry about sexualization in fictional comics.

...so you didn't read the article. I'm not sure why you feel the need to announce that.

I read it word for word. That is pretty much what he wants to communicate.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#122

Post by rockdoe »

vidarh wrote: post #72
thret wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Archie, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Asterix, Tintin... Old comics, from the 1980's or earlier are pretty safe. These days the audience is 15+ guys. Soft porn and hardcore violence. Why would he take his 7 year old daughter and 5 year old son to look at that? For kids that young seeing is believing. My nephew at 6 watched Star Wars over Christmas. You explain that it isn't real, they are actors in a play, playing chara…

> Why would he take his 7 year old daughter and 5 year old son to look at that? Presumably because he himself remembered how it used to be, and did not realise that the age bracket had shifted so dramatically. Even US comics used to be kid friendly.

Early(?) Simpsons had Bart going to the comic book store all the time, and he's a 10 year old. Sounds like that part of the show has now aged!

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#123

Post by misterdai »

robotkilla wrote: post #96
misterdai wrote: post #90

While I can understand how part of his post is about the way women are portrayed physically in those comics. I'm not so sure on his examples he picked in reference to his children and their unsuitability. I already commented on how I wasn't sure if Batman was suitable for his 5 year old, given the nature of some lines, but some examples he picked in reference to his 7 year old daughter were a stretch. Power Girl: Hav…

Most of the shops I frequent have a young readers section. Diamond (the only North American comic book distributor) even has a young readers section of their release list. The author of the article clearly thinks comics are intended for children, when only a small portion are.

I do find it worrying the amount of parents who dismiss a form of entertainment as "for kids" in their mindset. I've seen it a lot with video games, where a parent will buy a game for their child who is not even a teen and the game itself is rated for adults only (Call of Duty a prime example, once I saw it with Saints Row).

It's a shame the article author didn't bother to take this into account.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#124

Post by ceejayoz »

perakojotgenije wrote: post #81

I've never understood Americans' obsession with superhero comics. When I was a kid I was reading Asterix[1], Gaston Lagaffe[2], Spirou et Fantasio[3], Lucky Luke[4], Prince Valiant[5], The Phantom[6] and similar stuff. Of course, I've read Superman, Batman and Spiderman also but at least I've had a choice. I can't understand why they don't exist in US, why are the only comic books Americans know superhero comics? [1]…

I grew up on Asterix and Tintin.

How is Asterix not a superhero, though?

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#125

Post by pdpi »

xienze wrote: post #104
vidarh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First of all, you're making the assumption that our popular comics are popular because of sexualized content (i.e., no MJ with big tits = no one is gonna read Spiderman; doubtful). No, I am not. I am pointing out there is a correlation between sexualized content and sales numbers in the US today. In fact, I've pointed out elsewhere that perhaps this is one of the reasons the US comic audience is so small: The main…

> The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books: men who grew up reading comic books. Who are now adults. Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. It's been that way for quite a while. I'm willing to bet the comic book companies have done a…

> They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books

Well, funnily enough we're having this discussion on a website devoted to startups. So think of it from a business point of view. What would any of us here say if someone described the current state of affairs and strategy for their startup as "we started off as a successful company but we've been bleeding users and losing demographics, so we're going to cater exclusively to those demographics that still use our product, even if it further alienates everybody else"?

Look at a good example of a company doing the exact opposite: Lego was in dire straits a while back, and managed to make a comeback by diversifying — getting into the video game market brought kids back, and made the bricks a viable business again.

"Oh we're catering to our core audience" at some point becomes an absurd argument.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#126

Post by jiggy2011 »

pdpi wrote: post #125
xienze wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books: men who grew up reading comic books. Who are now adults. Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. It's been that way for quite a while. I'm willing to bet the comic book companies have done a…

> They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books Well, funnily enough we're having this discussion on a website devoted to startups. So think of it from a business point of view. What would any of us here say if someone described the current state of affairs and strategy for their startup as "we started off as a successful company but we've been bleeding users and losing demographics, so we're going to…

Catering to a narrow but profitable niche is very common advice on HN.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#127

Post by xienze »

pdpi wrote: post #125
xienze wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main titles have narrowed their focus even more compared to the 80's and are now overly sexualized and aimed squarely at men in a very narrow age bracket. They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books: men who grew up reading comic books. Who are now adults. Kids don't read comic books and don't care to. It's been that way for quite a while. I'm willing to bet the comic book companies have done a…

> They're aimed at the people who are left reading comic books Well, funnily enough we're having this discussion on a website devoted to startups. So think of it from a business point of view. What would any of us here say if someone described the current state of affairs and strategy for their startup as "we started off as a successful company but we've been bleeding users and losing demographics, so we're going to…

> we started off as a successful company but we've been bleeding users and losing demographics, so we're going to cater exclusively to those demographics that still use our product, even if it further alienates everybody else

If your problem is intractable then it's probably a good idea. When your demographic is getting older and not being replaced by a younger generation you're in trouble. Comic books can't compete with tablets, phones, cable TV, etc. for the attention of kids. It's not like it was in the 80s and earlier.

The interesting thing about the comic book companies is they have a lot of IP that's part of the collective consciousness and they've diversified by making shitloads of movies and TV shows that are hugely popular. The comics though? Relatively speaking no one is reading them.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#128

Post by k-mcgrady »

virtualritz wrote: post #77

This is an American problem. In Europe I grew up with Tin Tin, Jo, Zette & Joko but also John Difool and Nikopol. Got to a comic store in Paris an there's an abundance of comics that are 'real' and kids friendly. No boobies or asses etc.

I find this interesting when you think America is considered to be much more prudish than Europe. Anecdotally it seems that although sex and nudity is less taboo in Europe it isn't abused in the way it is in America.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#130

Post by xienze »

normloman wrote: post #108
xienze wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The selection targeting women is smaller because it's been tried. Over. And. Over. And women just don't care about comic books.

In Japan there are entire genres of comics targeted towards women. Now whether they are any good, or any less sexist than male comics is debatable. Am I supposed to believe that women love stories told with words, but are incapable of appreciating stories told with pictures?

In Japan there's entire genres of comics about tentacle rape. People are different in other countries.

Comics for women have been tried here. Over and over. They haven't worked. American women just aren't drawn to them. Sometimes it just is what it is!

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