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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

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Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#51

Post by xienze »

lsiebert wrote: post #40
lsiebert wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think http://shopbuy.org/static/category/original/romance-novels/E... sums my feelings up nicely. Romance Covers are, however, an entirely different topic.

The flip side of romances, if there is one, isn't comic books. More like letters to penthouse. Romances are supposed to be for adults, and are meant to be sensual or erotic. Like I said, different topic.

I think you might argue that comics are really "meant for adults" these days as they're the only people reading them anymore.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#52

Post by vidarh »

facepalm wrote: post #39
vidarh wrote: post #6

Having recently been on a comics binge after 20+ years of reading very few US comics and only slightly more European comics, and definitively not being very sensitive to this issue, I must admit it's still very much more noticeable today. The number of "lets make sure her ass shows" "shots" is much higher than I remember. Occasionally you even have characters comment on it. I'd think that if this was as prevalent whe…

I could be wrong, but weren't X-Men, Spiderman and the like always in the trash department of comics? From a European perspective it always seemed so. Sure they have a lot of fans, but they are not really representative of quality comics. (and by trash I mean silly stereotypes and exaggerations are basically implied).

The entire US superhero genre, with some notable exceptions, were in the "trash department of comics". You are right they are not representative of quality comics, but they were and are representative of a large segment of what sells.

Though especially in Europe there's a wider segment of non-superhero comics that sells well (and often outsells Marvel/DC titles by a wide margin), and that is not nearly as sexualised - see my comment elsewhere. But these are very poorly represented in most comic stores in English speaking countries.

The high brow stuff, even in Europe, sold - and sells - in far smaller quantities.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#53

Post by xienze »

vidarh wrote: post #36
xienze wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see them as the other side of the coin. Comic books are targeted towards men and sexualize women, romance novels are targeted towards women and sexualize men. Sex sells.

With respect to books, there are vast selections that mainly target men to balance out the romance book genre. With respect to comics, the selection targeting women is much smaller. It's not at all the same.

The selection targeting women is smaller because it's been tried. Over. And. Over. And women just don't care about comic books.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#54

Post by xienze »

cauterized wrote: post #47
elberto34 wrote: post #31

Garfield, Dilbert, Foxtrot and Calvin and Hobbes is about the extent of my comic repertoire Taking a 7 year old to a comic store is like tasking her to a pg 13 movie.. . Not too surprised it didn't work out. Comics tend to deal with adult themes and are aimed at older people.

When I was a kid, comics were for all ages. When my parents were kids, comics were for kids. That seems to have changed.

Because kids don't read comics. When your demographic changes you have to adapt or die.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#55

Post by vidarh »

spuz wrote: post #35

Maybe it's me but I cannot figure out what point the post is making. What exactly does the author 'get' now? How does the sexualisation of comic book characters relate to how women experience the tech industry? I'm not saying there isn't a link, but the author doesn't explain it from his point of view. I have to admit I am a little discouraged by the way the author handles his interactions with his daughter. To expla…

It sounds like what he "gets" is how hard it is to notice a lot of the sexualization when you don't get to see it from their side.

It's easy to e.g. dismiss the way female superheroes (and villains) are being dismissed with references to how the men are also in tight outfits (as you can find examples of in this thread). It's harder to dismiss the difference between your son having no problems finding something he likes vs. your daughter being put off by the depictions of women in the same series.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#56

Post by mangahonthrowwy »

xienze wrote: post #23
tiquortoo wrote: post #11

If the demographics swing at the edges of the market the center will respond. Particularly if there is social pressure to do so. This is not a malicious endeavor it is a market response and we frankly don't have to be so hand-wringy about it.

I agree 100%. I don't understand why everything has to be over-analyzed to death. Good grief, we're talking about comic books. I'd love to hear this guy write about taking his daughter to a shop selling uncensored Japanese Manga. "Maaaaybe our comics aren't so bad after all."

All sexual material sold legally in Japan is censored by law.

Many people in this thread are talking about how 'the market should adapt' or 'the market doesn't need to adapt', but I think a more interesting corraly is that 'the market' is the primary force acting on the culture of this niche. Japan is lucky to have a diverse comic market, but I think there's an interesting case to be made for non-market forces to encourage a broader set of creativity in the comic world, if not for the young girls at the very least countering the incessant duldrum I find myself stepped in as a consumer.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#57

Post by thret »

elberto34 wrote: post #31

Garfield, Dilbert, Foxtrot and Calvin and Hobbes is about the extent of my comic repertoire Taking a 7 year old to a comic store is like tasking her to a pg 13 movie.. . Not too surprised it didn't work out. Comics tend to deal with adult themes and are aimed at older people.

Archie, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Asterix, Tintin... Old comics, from the 1980's or earlier are pretty safe. These days the audience is 15+ guys. Soft porn and hardcore violence. Why would he take his 7 year old daughter and 5 year old son to look at that?

For kids that young seeing is believing. My nephew at 6 watched Star Wars over Christmas. You explain that it isn't real, they are actors in a play, playing characters - he's been in several plays himself - and then later on he says 'but it must be real, because how could they make a whole planet?'.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#58

Post by eru »

everyone wrote: post #22

I dont see this as an issue. Putting it very bluntly. Comics are (in general) of low quality (in terms of writing, ideas* ), aimed (in general) at a specific creepy contingent of society composed of teenage boys or men who still act like teenage boys. So, who cares about them!? Contemporary media, games, tv shows, films, music, are filled with and largely composed of terrible dross. If you're discerning that involves…

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming ?

> *Obviously there are some good comics which I've read (Akira is a good example) but, in my experience, the soaring heights of the greatest writing in comics would be seen as mediocre in another domain.

There's lots of genres like that. Soap operas. Romance novels.

Re: What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

#60

Post by po »

facepalm wrote: post #44
po wrote: post #12

I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that…

Are you saying you want quotas for comic shops? Why shouldn't they be allowed to just sell the things their customers actually buy? If somebody has a vision for a better comic shop, why not create one, instead of calling for rules and regulations? I suppose you could even apply to YC with the idea of launching a better comic book chain. Edit: since HN prevents me from commenting atm - sure, write more articles about…

1) no

2) they can, and I'm also free to make commentary about it

3) they can, and nowhere did I mention rules or regulations

4) You're right, I could.

The only suggestion I made was that people should write more articles pointing out that there's a lot of potential for more types of comics. The medium is underused. I get the feeling you're replying to what others have said more than what I said.

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