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Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

theguardian.com

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Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#101

Post by corin_ »

tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

Not directly related to Charlie Hebdo, but related to the Guardian and their "offending" people - they've always been at the top of the list in the UK for being willing to use swear words rather than filtering them out, considering their audience mature enough to see "fuck" without being scared.

There was a good piece in the Guardian about their own use of swear words within the last week which I read on my mobile and can't find (I'm pretty sure it was a column in some section, Culture or G2 or something - it wasn't an official statement), but they had a great example of how every other newspaper reported on the John Terry racism case (football/soccer in the UK) by quoting him as saying "F@@@@@g black c@@t" or equivalent, ironically leaving unfiltered the one word that actually offended the player he said it to.

Like I said, I can't find the piece from the last week, but here's a 2010 article showing how much more willing the Guardian is to risk offense when it comes to swear words: http://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2010/apr...

Like I said, a bit off-topic but I think interesting in the discussion of the Guardian's warning of offending people.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#102

Post by k-mcgrady »

mlrtime wrote: post #61
saalaa wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charlie Hebdo? I'm pretty sure they'll keep mocking religions.

Who will raise the bar? Ouch for the down-votes. When I say raise the bar, I don't mean to incite violence, I mean to say who else is going to take on the task that so little are willing to risk their lives for.

Why does the bar need raised? It's not a competition to see who can piss off religious people the most. The point of the cartoons is to convey a message. Just take a look at the new Charlie Hebdo cover for example. They could have acted in revenge and really, really mocked Islam - and it sounds like that's what you would have done. Instead they created something quite beautiful while still exercising their right to free speech and expression even as radicals tried to stomp them out. It's not a competition to be most offensive. It's trying to convey your message in the best way possible without fear of reprisal compromising that.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#103

Post by [deleted] »

tomp wrote: post #66
[deleted] wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> racists I fail to see how the attacks have anything to do with racism . Islamophobia is not racism. > Send me some photographs or your mother or spouse and let me modify those images. Let's see if you are able to ignore or laugh them off. Well, I'm not sure they would consent to me sharing photos of them, but you can have mine :) Just add me as a friend on Facebook (Tom Primozic), and you'll have a collection of ph…

[deleted]

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#104

Post by TomGullen »

tomp wrote: post #92
[deleted] wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> Like we all believe that racism is bad, and racist comments/opinions should be discouraged, then why can't we respect each other's religion? Racism is bad, because you can't choose your race. You can choose your religion (or, in general, what you believe in). I think adults who believe in the existence of unicorns are insane. If you don't find that wrong/offensive, I don't see why the same reasoning couldn't be app…

> You can choose your religion

I don't know... can you? It's not like picking your favourite bread in the super market, from a religious persons POV they may of:

- Been brought up in the environment

- External pressures from relatives/society

- In some cases institutionalised to their religion

- Felt some strong emotional connection to the religion

- Experienced some kind of religious experience that binds them to their religion

I don't believe in God, but I think saying people are just picking and choosing isn't fair or accurate and shows perhaps a lack of understanding about the subject matter

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#105

Post by apricot »

dtf wrote: post #42
ThePhysicist wrote: post #5

I'm sure the Wednesday issue will sell out in no time, despite its edition of 3 million, and become a "collector's piece" for those opposing terrorism and violence (as well as for those who want to resell it on Ebay for a profit ;)). I really admire the courage of the Charlie Hebdo staff, who, just one week after the attack, publish a new issue of their journal. For me, the main problem now is how we deal with the po…

Here's a great interview with Luz, whose signature you can see on the cover drawing. The interesting thing is that Charlie was at heart an iconoclastic magazine, and yet ironically has now become an icon of free speech - something the staff aren't particularly happy about. http://www.lesinrocks.com/2015/01/10/actualite/luz-eyes-us-w...

That interview should be read by everyone who cares about the attack on Charlie Hebdo and subsequent "Je suis Charlie" worldwide movement. Many people, for all kinds of reasons (many good) are trying to make Charlie Hebdo into what it is not, and never will be, some kind of reluctant messiah of free speech.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#106

Post by enneff »

tomp wrote: post #69
sarciszewski wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such warnings an insult to my intelligence and a trivialization of people's personal responsibility, where is my warning? I agree wholeheartedly. They may have decided to preface their article with this message because they feared retaliation by zealous Muslims who would not otherwise…

Why was this downvoted?!

Nearly zero content.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#108

Post by liveoneggs »

orf wrote: post #98
chroma wrote: post #32

The Charlie Hebdo attacks show that these days, real satire of Islam can't be done without significant risk of violent reprisal. If you doubt that statement, remember The Book of Mormon. (The play, not the actual book.) Could you imagine Trey Parker and Matt Stone making an equivalent Broadway play about Islam? Could you imagine them calling it The Qur'an to Google-bomb the original? Even if they disregarded their ow…

The story of the Mormons is a lot easier to make fun of though, and they are drop in the ocean compared to Islam (the second biggest religion in the world). Even so would you put that play on in Salt Lake City? I doubt there would be massacres but I expect there would be some form of defacement or attempts at suppression by fundamentalists. And it's not just Islamic religion that would cause this, exactly what you de…

http://saltlakecity.broadway.com/shows/book-mormon-baa/

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#109

Post by jpgvm »

JonnieCache wrote: post #73
gbog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to point out that Far East cultures (China and Japan) do not have the same religious instincts. For them an almighty human-like God who wrote a sacred book is not conceivable. I don't think they can understand what religion and faith represent in the lives of Christian, Jews and Muslims. And unsurprisingly, religious wars have been quite marginal in this part of the world. One could also trace this important…

A very good point. I would argue that these cultures are simply expressing these religious instincts in ways that don't look like abrahamic religions, in the same way that football or rock music don't look like abrahamic religions either. Also, once you blur out the technical theological details, is Confucius not effectively treated as a prophet? (This is a genuine question.)

Not as a prophet, he wasn't said to have spoken the words of a divine force/entity.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#110

Post by mxfh »

Udik wrote: post #71

Yesterday the Guardian published the best opinion I've read so far about satire, Charlie Hebdo, the terrorist attacks and our reaction to them. And it's a short comic strip by the cartoonist Joe Sacco: http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/...

While I respect Secco and his work as well it's also wrong and out of context in some regards.

Ruben Bolling: http://gocomics.typepad.com/tomthedancingbugblog/2015/01/in-...

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