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Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

theguardian.com

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Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#61

Post by mlrtime »

saalaa wrote: post #52
chroma wrote: post #32

The Charlie Hebdo attacks show that these days, real satire of Islam can't be done without significant risk of violent reprisal. If you doubt that statement, remember The Book of Mormon. (The play, not the actual book.) Could you imagine Trey Parker and Matt Stone making an equivalent Broadway play about Islam? Could you imagine them calling it The Qur'an to Google-bomb the original? Even if they disregarded their ow…

Charlie Hebdo? I'm pretty sure they'll keep mocking religions.

Who will raise the bar?

Ouch for the down-votes. When I say raise the bar, I don't mean to incite violence, I mean to say who else is going to take on the task that so little are willing to risk their lives for.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#63

Post by gws »

jpgvm wrote: post #40

It takes a great deal to stand up against the advance of political correctness on free speech. Other countries haven't nearly done as well as France. At the end of the day the situation was tragic but the defence of free speech against prevailing winds is incredibly important. As for religious extremism... I don't think we will see an end until enlightenment spreads and religion fades into historic irrelevancy. This…

I don't think that the religion is the issue, I think that desperate people with desperate lives will always find something irrational to fill their life with and kill for.

As an example on a smaller scale (smaller as in less desperate) in Italy we have people whose life revolves around going to the stadium on Sunday to watch their football team and getting into fights with the fans of the opponent team. That's the only thing that keeps their life together. And they are ready to kill other teams' fans, we have people killed every year.

Likewise we have extreme right or extreme left groups who fight and kill each other... desperate people filling their life.

Religion, political faith, football team, doesn't really matter, the issue is the people, not the ideas.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#64

Post by gbog »

JonnieCache wrote: post #26
neals wrote: post #7

I used to think society would, at some point, grow up and leave religion behind. But lately, it just feels like a far 'lower' form of religion is just taking over. I think that western christianity has made some big strides. For example, by leaving all the violence behind. Now the violent ones are winning. This makes me sad for the future of Europe.

The religious instinct hasn't gone from the secular western world, it's just been re-expressed in different more modern ways, variously consumerism, string theory, celebrity, and so on. I'm pretty sure personally that it's built into our biology. In the words of Charlie Brooker: "Imagine! Nothing to kill or die for! And no religion too! It's amazing, literally no one's ever had that thought before. Okay, so there's a…

I'd like to point out that Far East cultures (China and Japan) do not have the same religious instincts. For them an almighty human-like God who wrote a sacred book is not conceivable. I don't think they can understand what religion and faith represent in the lives of Christian, Jews and Muslims. And unsurprisingly, religious wars have been quite marginal in this part of the world. One could also trace this important cultural difference to the figure of Confucius, who was not atheist, but refused to speak about what he called the Sky.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#65

Post by RobAley »

[deleted] wrote: post #28

[deleted]

Try that argument with yet another topic :

If you, as a woman, go out wearing a short skirt, to a bar with all of these men, then what do you expect to happen?

I mean, I don't approve of the measures taken by the rapist, but they had it coming, and they seem to have been wanting it.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#66

Post by tomp »

[deleted] wrote: post #57
tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

[deleted]

> racists

I fail to see how the attacks have anything to do with racism. Islamophobia is not racism.

> Send me some photographs or your mother or spouse and let me modify those images. Let's see if you are able to ignore or laugh them off.

Well, I'm not sure they would consent to me sharing photos of them, but you can have mine :) Just add me as a friend on Facebook (Tom Primozic), and you'll have a collection of photos you can use! I'll gladly laugh at them, I promise (unless they're not funny or are disgusting or such, but I will evaluate them on purely objective standards, without taking any offence).

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#67

Post by chernevik »

jpgvm wrote: post #47
tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

Unfortunately the concept of having the right to be offended, but not the right not to be offended doesn't seem to have been explained to Muslims. Every other faith (and other large group of people) seems to have accepted it however.

I'm embarrassed to say that some of my fellow Catholics don't entirely get it. After the attack the Catholic League had a truly stupid editorial of "provocation isn't free speech" flavor.

Religious people will always have a struggle between their notions of the sacred and others' freedom to ignore those notions. Those using their minds will see the necessity of freedom of conscience -- there is no faith without choice -- and accept its implications for speech. But the temptations and ignorances that move people to dictate to others are, I think, common to all religions. Yes, the mainstreams of Christianity and Judaism have gone much further in thinking this through, but we'll always have to guard against this instinct.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#68

Post by matthewmacleod »

icebraining wrote: post #3

Speaking on Today, [Omer el-Hamdoon, president of the Muslim Association of Britain] said causing offence “just for the purpose of offending” was not freedom of speech. Distancing yourself from the extremists [FAIL]

This guy has an amazingly unhelpful point of view. It's literally freedom of speech to cause offence for the purpose of it. He's just exposed MAB's viewpoint as being opposed to freedom of expression, which is a shockingly stupid thing to do here.

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#69

Post by tomp »

sarciszewski wrote: post #16
tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

> Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such warnings an insult to my intelligence and a trivialization of people's personal responsibility, where is my warning? I agree wholeheartedly. They may have decided to preface their article with this message because they feared retaliation by zealous Muslims who would not otherwise…

Why was this downvoted?!

Re: Charlie Hebdo: first cover since terror attack depicts prophet Muhammad

#70

Post by davexunit »

tomp wrote: post #4

> Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive. It's the first time I've seen something like this on Guardian; I don't even remember it on articles discussing rape, murder or such, which is usually where "trigger warning" applies. Personally, I find such trigger warnings, and especially "you might be offended" warnings, totally ridiculous. What about me? I find such wa…

Everyone has to walk on eggshells around Islam, or risk being labeled racist or "Islamaphobic".
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