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Je Suis Charlie

charliehebdo.fr

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Re: Je Suis Charlie

#141

Post by arcatek »

tribaal wrote: post #127
gouggoug wrote: post #21

Some context for people wondering what this is about. Wednesday 7th, at 11am, 3 people entered "Charlie Hebdo" a very well known French satirical newspaper and shot 12 people with kalashnikov. Charlie Hebdo is also known, for their caricatures of the prophet Mahomet. "Je Suis Charlie" means, "I Am Charlie" and is a message of support to the newspaper. This is obviously a very short sum-up.

Just a small precision (I am French and following media closely): - Two people assaulted the office, and killed 10, wounded 11 (4 of which considered critical). - They furthermore killed 2 police officers on their way out, one of them point blank as he lay wounded and was asking for mercy (do yourself a favor and don't look at that witness video. I mean it. NSFL). - They are on the loose and are reported armed with a…

It's important to also note that they have killed four of the main illustrators of the paper. It will be very hard for them to overcome that.

However, the others french papers are trying to help the redaction, so maybe Charlie will live.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#142

Post by TillE »

boracay wrote: post #140
discardorama wrote: post #134

308 points in 2 hours and 121 comments... and listed at #24. Ranked below stories like: 2. 121 points, 3 hours ago , 26 comments 3. 69 points , 2 hours ago , 22 comments 5. 138 points, 4 hours ago , 33 comments 8. 80 points , 4 hours ago , 28 comments 9. 46 points , 3 hours ago , 10 comments 10. 56 points , 3 hours ago , 19 comments Looks like it's being flagged left and right. Why? What if, instead of Charlie, it wa…

I'll upvote something that actually discusses how this effects our freedom rather than just some "let's all be upset". As far as I know western politicians have been far more effective at undermining our freedom and increasing extremism than the terrorists could ever have been on their own.

The Juan Cole article is easily the best thing I've read so far, but I still don't think HN would produce any useful discussion about it.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/sharpening-contradictions-sa...

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#143

Post by baby »

DanBC wrote: post #83
baby wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion. Something that reddit doesn't care about at all. I was wondering if no post about this event was on HN's frontpage because it tries to avoid political/flame wars. But now this is on the frontpage 5 hours after... And it's not even relevant.

The other stories get flagged. Turn on "showdead" to show them. Not sure why you think it's not relevant? Je Suis charlie is the phrase being used to show support and solidarity. (This is an unfortunate language coincidence.)

Yes I noticed they got flagged and I guessed HN wanted to avoid that kind of stories here.

It's not "as relevant" as an article explaining the story, the wikipedia page, ...

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#144

Post by baby »

discardorama wrote: post #134

308 points in 2 hours and 121 comments... and listed at #24. Ranked below stories like: 2. 121 points, 3 hours ago , 26 comments 3. 69 points , 2 hours ago , 22 comments 5. 138 points, 4 hours ago , 33 comments 8. 80 points , 4 hours ago , 28 comments 9. 46 points , 3 hours ago , 10 comments 10. 56 points , 3 hours ago , 19 comments Looks like it's being flagged left and right. Why? What if, instead of Charlie, it wa…

I think HN is trying not to have stories like this here. I have to admit I was really curious about this community's reaction (as reddit's reaction is pretty... violent). But afterall is HN really the place to discuss such things?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#145

Post by Shivetya »

venomsnake wrote: post #104
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it. I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.) On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's…

The people that died today were a warriors. In a war that I am not sure you even realize is waging. The war for the freedom of the human mind. Humor, satire, mockery - they all help society to see through haze. Because nothing should be sacrosanct. The moment we say that even a single thing is ... then everything that suits the powers that be will be.

because this is not just about freedom of speech, it is about freedom of religion, the freedom to live your life as you so choose in any shape or form that does not negatively impact others.

these people do not believe in any self determination.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#146

Post by ersii »

louwrentius wrote: post #136
tjradcliffe wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should adopt a very simple policy: the satire will continue until the killings stop. This puts the onus on the Islamist murderers to stop killing people. When they stop killing people for making fun of them for being religion-addled killers, the number of people making fun of them for being religion-addled murderers will start a long slow decline, until eventually it will, as it were, die away. Until then, we shou…

The satire will continue, wether or not the murdering stops. For ever. Because that's the concept of freedom of speech.

Well, that's if freedom of speech continues to be allowed and accepted. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Freedom of Speech has a very bright future.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#147

Post by meepmorp »

discardorama wrote: post #134

308 points in 2 hours and 121 comments... and listed at #24. Ranked below stories like: 2. 121 points, 3 hours ago , 26 comments 3. 69 points , 2 hours ago , 22 comments 5. 138 points, 4 hours ago , 33 comments 8. 80 points , 4 hours ago , 28 comments 9. 46 points , 3 hours ago , 10 comments 10. 56 points , 3 hours ago , 19 comments Looks like it's being flagged left and right. Why? What if, instead of Charlie, it wa…

> Martin Niemoller's "First they came for the Communists...."

Seriously? You're making a comparison to the Nazis?

Edit: It's 3 assholes with assault rifles, not a totalitarian state. Can we calibrate our references to be a bit less hysterical and hyperbolic?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#148

Post by disposedAccount »

tjradcliffe wrote: post #131
krig wrote: post #22

This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…

We should adopt a very simple policy: the satire will continue until the killings stop. This puts the onus on the Islamist murderers to stop killing people. When they stop killing people for making fun of them for being religion-addled killers, the number of people making fun of them for being religion-addled murderers will start a long slow decline, until eventually it will, as it were, die away. Until then, we shou…

Am I allowed to say that the Prophet Muhammad can go and fuck a pig without fear of being murdered?

Plenty of people make jokes about others faiths yet do not expect death.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#149

Post by serve_yay »

skrebbel wrote: post #125
krig wrote: post #22

This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…

> This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. No. We shouldn't. We as a society need to stand for values of openness, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. There is no way to do this other than to accept that there are psychopaths and lunatics among the human race and sometimes they do something terrible. After all, the only way to truly prevent acts like these is wi…

In America we like say "freedom isn't free" while we waste trillions on ineffectual wars, but we don't like hearing "freedom isn't free" in cases like this. But you are unfortunately absolutely right, we have to accept that our freedom implies risks.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#150

Post by meapix »

I'm a muslim and I found most of cartoons by Charlie Hebdo funny, however the cartoon about the prophet didn't upset me at all but was not funny. It did however trigger something: this is how people actually see this religion, a bomb on a prophet's head. The reality is what makes something funny or not.

Should this be the end of making funny of anything or raising questions/ideas, no. However a journalist's job is not to upset people but to cross the line then come back and bring some people with him/her: convince.

All my condolences to those affected by this tragedy from Ottawa, Canada.

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