I wonder if the debate in the media will focus on religious fanaticism or if they'll start victim blaming by arguing that Charlie Hebdo was asking for it, being provocative.
I wonder if HN commentors will start concern trolling.
Je Suis Charlie
121–130 of 292 posts
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Islam is a race as much as atheism is a race.
Well, actually much more. If you tell me you're atheist I don't know much about your race. If you tell me you're a muslim, I can have a very good statistical chance to pinpoint you in one of several ethnicities...
> If you tell me you're a muslim, I can have a very good statistical chance to pinpoint you in one of several ethnicities...
So what? A person's race doesn't determine the ideas, religious or otherwise, that they hold. Two famous examples: Ayaan Hirsi Ali left Islam, and Cat Stevens joined it.
A person's ideas, on the other hand, make all the difference in the world. Who can deny that these terrorists were not motivated and guided by a distinct ideology: fundamentalist Islam?
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#123My belief is that, when something like this happens, we need a strong show of solidarity with the victim. If you are (or know) a journalist, please consider publishing some of the Charlie Hebdo satirical cartoons, unredacted and uncensored, in your coverage of this story. Terrorists may be able to kill some of us, but they can't kill all of us.
Looks like I'm not alone in this belief:
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#124There is a gathering in SF being organized on Facebook. Tonight, 7pm in front of the French consulate.
https://www.facebook.com/events/1562482893969481/?pnref=stor...
#JeSuisCharlie
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#125This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…
> This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen.
No. We shouldn't. We as a society need to stand for values of openness, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. There is no way to do this other than to accept that there are psychopaths and lunatics among the human race and sometimes they do something terrible.
After all, the only way to truly prevent acts like these is with an absolute police state. I am Charlie, and I will not stand for such a crackdown.
We have to stop imagining that we can entirely cure the human race from mental sickness or extreme radicalism. We have to accept that, in a free society, sometimes horrible things happen. One day it's a hurricane, the other day it's a terrorist attack. Nobody is to blame except the perpetrators and their direct influencers.
Stoltenberg (ironically now the boss of NATO) said it best the last time something like this happened in Europe: "The Norwegian response to violence is more democracy, more openness and greater political participation". That's the only valid response.
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#126My heart sunk as soon as I heard the terrorists were muslim extremists, as here in Holland anti-immigrant and anti-muslim feelings are very present, and these incidents are fuel on the fire of racism here. I really, really hope that people from different muslim communities speak up as well. In past incidents there was a lot of silence, usually prompted by fear (I suspect). I understand if they don't, but I hope they…
Agreed. The potential backlash against innocent French and European Muslims is one of the scariest things in these events. France is full of closeted (and not-so-closeted) islamophobic fascists, and this attack of violence against words is almost guaranteed to cause some of them to unite and multiply their aggressiveness and stupidity. It is not a good day for the Muslim world.
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#127Some context for people wondering what this is about. Wednesday 7th, at 11am, 3 people entered "Charlie Hebdo" a very well known French satirical newspaper and shot 12 people with kalashnikov. Charlie Hebdo is also known, for their caricatures of the prophet Mahomet. "Je Suis Charlie" means, "I Am Charlie" and is a message of support to the newspaper. This is obviously a very short sum-up.
Just a small precision (I am French and following media closely):
- Two people assaulted the office, and killed 10, wounded 11 (4 of which considered critical).
- They furthermore killed 2 police officers on their way out, one of them point blank as he lay wounded and was asking for mercy (do yourself a favor and don't look at that witness video. I mean it. NSFL).
- They are on the loose and are reported armed with automatic weapons and a rocket launcher. No kidding.
- Their car was found in a suburban ghetto (Pantin, in Seine-saint-denis)
Sorry for the gory details.
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#128Never a better time to bring back the guillotine.
Nope! L'amour plus fort que la haine. http://madvilletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/charlie-...
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
> how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion Although it would be nice, from a PR standpoint, if some French Muslim organizations could condemn those events, becuase I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo. Have they? I have searched Google News for that and didn't find links, so please post if there are some. Or they may…
> I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo Maybe ask most Muslims, not some self-appointed leaders?
At least here in Holland, many muslims form communities, often centered around cultural and religious centers. These communities tend to have leaders and/or spokespeople. These people can speak on behalf of the community. They are not (necessarily) self-appointed.
In my experience, here, the moderate muslims are often rather quiet, perhaps out of fear. In general, they do not support extremism and fear non-muslim extremist retaliation. They are in a really bad spot, and I sympathize with their situation.
Re: Je Suis Charlie
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please tell me "Charlie" refers to something hilarious, much like "ein Berliner" meant "a donut", more/less. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mu02xUgE4k (Don't mean to take away from the gravity of the situation — merely wanted to share a good laugh.)
Is it possible that the "je suis charlie" pdf being shared is an ISIS hack, a planted virus? Anyone?
I don't understand why you are asking this, multiple times to boot. It seems unlikely to me. Do you have any reason to suspect that?