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Je Suis Charlie

charliehebdo.fr

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Re: Je Suis Charlie

#71

Post by grownseed »

tokenadult wrote: post #40

Posted on my Facebook wall immediately. Thanks for sharing the link. Earlier today, I was searching for news stories about the shooting incident in Paris that would actually show the cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo to establish context for how cowardly and despicable the shooting was. Most English-language press outlets are not showing the cartoons. A comment on one news site pointed out that Spanish-language med…

Thanks for sharing this. For context, the picture says:

- top-left: "Mahomet overwhelmed by fundamentalists"

- in the speech bubble: "It's hard to be loved by dumbasses" (the meaning of "con" is hard to convey in certain cases, it has this idea of "nefariously idiotic" - translating it to "cunt" wouldn't do it justice I believe)

In any case, this is all very alarming. I hope nobody submits to the threats, as is the point of "Je suis Charlie". I also feel for all the Muslims who will end up being discriminated against for the actions of a few imbeciles.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#72

Post by RivieraKid »

mercurial wrote: post #34
krig wrote: post #22

This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…

> Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik Sure. And there were also numerous bombings and attacks in Europe by left-wing extremists during the "years of lead". That said, the difference between Breivik and these guys is just the beard length. Right…

The difference is that religion didn't play a role in the motivation behind Breivik's attack.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#73

Post by mrtron »

krig wrote: post #22

This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…

I think the chasm we need to cross is accepting that anything "faith based" is an acceptable target of satire. Additionally, I think the satire adds a lot of value in constraining the absurdity.

I don't strictly mean religion here. Among others, politics and political candidates meet the requirements. I think there is a lot of value to satirical political cartoons.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#74

Post by coldtea »

Kiro wrote: post #35
blfr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious fanaticism? Were the attackers Buddhists? Shintoists? Jews?

Can muslims not be religious fanatics or what do you mean? Sorry if I missed something obvious with your comment.

He means it was "islamic fanaticism", so it's islams fault, and those other types are not fanatics...

On the other hand the Sintoist Japanese did horrible attrocities in China and Korea back in the day, Israeli Jews can also be genocidal against Palestinians etc. And Christianity has had its share of crime, starting with the Crusades.

Budhists might be better, dunno.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#75

Post by baby »

jknz wrote: post #52
gouggoug wrote: post #21

Some context for people wondering what this is about. Wednesday 7th, at 11am, 3 people entered "Charlie Hebdo" a very well known French satirical newspaper and shot 12 people with kalashnikov. Charlie Hebdo is also known, for their caricatures of the prophet Mahomet. "Je Suis Charlie" means, "I Am Charlie" and is a message of support to the newspaper. This is obviously a very short sum-up.

People are going in the streets to support the newspaper in France and other European cities, a map is available here: http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/carte-interactive-tous... A noticeable fact is how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion.

> not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion.

Something that reddit doesn't care about at all. I was wondering if no post about this event was on HN's frontpage because it tries to avoid political/flame wars. But now this is on the frontpage 5 hours after... And it's not even relevant.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#76

Post by coldtea »

rimantas wrote: post #44
agumonkey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiny detail, one of the cops that was killed on duty was a Muslim man named Ahmed. Hoping this will help avoiding the racist crowd to take advantage of the event too much.

Islam is a race as much as atheism is a race.

Well, actually much more. If you tell me you're atheist I don't know much about your race. If you tell me you're a muslim, I can have a very good statistical chance to pinpoint you in one of several ethnicities...

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#77

Post by blfr »

mrtron wrote: post #57
Kiro wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can muslims not be religious fanatics or what do you mean? Sorry if I missed something obvious with your comment.

I think that he is implying they are "muslim fanatics" not "religious fanatics". This is an important distinction if you are religious but want to pretend to yourself extremism only happens with muslims.

Right. Or if you're non-religious but also not a communist.

More importantly, the condemnation of "extremism" misses the point. No one's worried about Catholic monks. Yet they're some of the most extreme religious extremists around. Buddhist monks even more so.

Why speak like a politician when you're not one?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#80

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Torgo wrote: post #41
robteix wrote: post #3

I wonder if the debate in the media will focus on religious fanaticism or if they'll start victim blaming by arguing that Charlie Hebdo was asking for it, being provocative.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing…

Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it.

I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.)

On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's faith traditions to be a virtue.

What's more, we live in a world where violent extremists exist. That's reality. They shouldn't exist, but this is not an ideal world. They're out there. When you choose to deliberately insult the cherished beliefs of violent extremists, in the real world you have to know that you are likely to cause some consequences. (Let me be very clear here. The violent extremists are morally responsible for the violent reaction. But when you push their buttons, you have to know that their buttons are hot-wired to their trigger fingers.)

Now, you may conclude that it's worth it to demonstrate that these people really are violent extremists. That's your choice. I'm not saying that you're wrong. But you'd better think it through before you do it, because the way the world actually works, you may receive some consequences.

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