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Je Suis Charlie

charliehebdo.fr

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Re: Je Suis Charlie

#111

Post by jknz »

aragot wrote: post #105
jknz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are going in the streets to support the newspaper in France and other European cities, a map is available here: http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/carte-interactive-tous... A noticeable fact is how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion.

> how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion Although it would be nice, from a PR standpoint, if some French Muslim organizations could condemn those events, becuase I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo. Have they? I have searched Google News for that and didn't find links, so please post if there are some. Or they may…

The president of the UOIF [1], the collective of all the French muslim organizations, is invited to speak at 8pm on France 2 (the national TV channel). Source: https://twitter.com/UOIF/status/552891285900894209

[1]: http://www.uoif-online.com/

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#112

Post by Torgo »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #80
Torgo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing…

Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it. I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.) On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's…

I can guarantee you that's not what she means, or if so, it would be wildly inconsistent with the definition of victim blaming re. rape victims which she supports. You would never, ever, catch her saying "it was a completely expected outcome if you lead the guy on" or digress about how so many girls dress so provocatively. She would rightly focus on the exact crime and its perpetrator.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#113

Post by DanBC »

daeken wrote: post #17
mercurial wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculous, cowardly, and wrong. Charlie Hebdo is left-wing, and is fairly even handed when it comes to mockery.

Even if they weren't even-handed, it wouldn't change a thing. They could be publishing a newspaper named "Fuck Muhammad" and it'd still be equally wrong for them to have been attacked in this way. I'm not entirely sure why we coddle religious fanatics as we do, but it needs to stop for us to progress as a society.

We don't coddle religious fanatics, we coddle the moderate masses.

As soon as extremists get involved things change. These murders have caused many people who were against publishing Mohammed cartoons to change their stance.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#116

Post by xgbi »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #80
Torgo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing…

Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it. I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.) On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's…

There's a big, big, big difference between insult and satire. I'll let you think about that for a while.

Charlie was a satirical paper, it was here to provoke thoughts, not just for muslims. The people that took the insult were the people that don't understand satire.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#117

Post by gohrt »

aragot wrote: post #105
jknz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are going in the streets to support the newspaper in France and other European cities, a map is available here: http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/carte-interactive-tous... A noticeable fact is how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion.

> how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion Although it would be nice, from a PR standpoint, if some French Muslim organizations could condemn those events, becuase I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo. Have they? I have searched Google News for that and didn't find links, so please post if there are some. Or they may…

> I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo

Maybe ask most Muslims, not some self-appointed leaders?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#118

Post by gohrt »

daeken wrote: post #27
krig wrote: post #22

This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…

> How is freedom of speech best defended in the face of unreasonable people who have no limits to what they are prepared to do? By everyone continuing to utilize their freedom of speech. It's really that simple. The only way to lose is to not make use of your freedom.

Utilizing your freedom of speech doesn't quite stop the murder problem, though. It's not that simple.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#119

Post by gohrt »

aaronem wrote: post #55
daeken wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns might preserve the freedom of speech of a few people. Words preserve freedom of speech for everyone else. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

Only when you can't tell the difference between killing and murder.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-...

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#120

Post by gohrt »

aaronem wrote: post #55
daeken wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns might preserve the freedom of speech of a few people. Words preserve freedom of speech for everyone else. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

Only when you can't tell the difference between killing and murder.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-...
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