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Je Suis Charlie

charliehebdo.fr

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Re: Je Suis Charlie

#51

Post by mercurial »

mikeash wrote: post #31
krig wrote: post #22

This is horrible, and we as a society need to somehow make this kind of thing not happen. I have no idea what that means in practice, though. It seems everything that has been tried so far has only escalated the hatred and strengthened the extremists. Also, at a time like this it is important not to forget that the last major terrorist attack in Europe was instigated by a fundamentalist christian norwegian. https://e…

I don't think technology or psychology is yet sufficiently advanced to be able to stop this stuff altogether. However horrible it may sound, I think our best course of action is to accept that these things do happen occasionally. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight them, and that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to prevent them, but it does mean that we must accept that we'll never get to 100%. If we can move f…

Not sure why you're being downvoted. You're right: absolute security is impossible. Unfortunately, I can already see more "security" laws on the horizon, because lawmakers have to be seen doing something.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#52

Post by jknz »

gouggoug wrote: post #21

Some context for people wondering what this is about. Wednesday 7th, at 11am, 3 people entered "Charlie Hebdo" a very well known French satirical newspaper and shot 12 people with kalashnikov. Charlie Hebdo is also known, for their caricatures of the prophet Mahomet. "Je Suis Charlie" means, "I Am Charlie" and is a message of support to the newspaper. This is obviously a very short sum-up.

People are going in the streets to support the newspaper in France and other European cities, a map is available here: http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/carte-interactive-tous...

A noticeable fact is how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#53

Post by AnimalMuppet »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #48
daeken wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is freedom of speech best defended in the face of unreasonable people who have no limits to what they are prepared to do? By everyone continuing to utilize their freedom of speech. It's really that simple. The only way to lose is to not make use of your freedom.

Even aside from the blatantly unreasonable people, consider the reasonable people who don't think that you should have that freedom of speech. Demographic trends present in Europe today make eventual change in public policy on the matter an increasingly realistic prospect. This is one of the underlying reasons behind the European right's distress about rising influence of Muslims, and a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment a…

The democratic society has to convert people to a democratic, tolerant viewpoint at something approaching the rate at which people from other backgrounds enter the country. As far as I can see, that's the only thing that can possibly work.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#54

Post by mercer »

Torgo wrote: post #41
robteix wrote: post #3

I wonder if the debate in the media will focus on religious fanaticism or if they'll start victim blaming by arguing that Charlie Hebdo was asking for it, being provocative.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing…

I agree with that statement in isolation, but in context it does seem misplaced.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#55

Post by aaronem »

daeken wrote: post #39
aaronem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By force of arms. What else is there?

Guns might preserve the freedom of speech of a few people. Words preserve freedom of speech for everyone else. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

Only when you can't tell the difference between killing and murder.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#56

Post by hyp0 »

"Je n'ai pas peur des représailles. Je n'ai pas de gosses, pas de femme, pas de voiture, pas de crédit. ça fait sûrement un peu pompeux, mais je préfère mourir debout que vivre à genoux." - Charb, one of the murdered satirists

"I am not afraid of retaliation. I have no kids, no wife, no car, no mortgage. It surely is a bit dramatic but I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees" - translation from http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2rmgra/these_two_carto...

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#57

Post by mrtron »

Kiro wrote: post #35
blfr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious fanaticism? Were the attackers Buddhists? Shintoists? Jews?

Can muslims not be religious fanatics or what do you mean? Sorry if I missed something obvious with your comment.

I think that he is implying they are "muslim fanatics" not "religious fanatics".

This is an important distinction if you are religious but want to pretend to yourself extremism only happens with muslims.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#58

Post by njyx »

jmcomets wrote: post #47
aaronem wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being murdered for what you say seems like, if not precisely losing, then being at least removed from the board.

Not expressing your freedom of speech in fear of being murdered is definitely what these terrorists want (note the term "terror"-ists).

I think that's unfortunately just the first order aim. The second order is to provoke an even more extreme reaction from the other side which drives wedges and divisions where there were none (or were manageable). Pretty soon everyone is at war.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#59

Post by randallsquared »

Kiro wrote: post #35
blfr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious fanaticism? Were the attackers Buddhists? Shintoists? Jews?

Can muslims not be religious fanatics or what do you mean? Sorry if I missed something obvious with your comment.

I believe he's asking that we not tar all religious people with this brush. But, then, exactly the same argument applies to muslims in general.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#60

Post by nkantar »

dankohn1 wrote: post #32
gouggoug wrote: post #21

Some context for people wondering what this is about. Wednesday 7th, at 11am, 3 people entered "Charlie Hebdo" a very well known French satirical newspaper and shot 12 people with kalashnikov. Charlie Hebdo is also known, for their caricatures of the prophet Mahomet. "Je Suis Charlie" means, "I Am Charlie" and is a message of support to the newspaper. This is obviously a very short sum-up.

And "Je Suis Charlie" echoes Kennedy's famous line: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner

Please tell me "Charlie" refers to something hilarious, much like "ein Berliner" meant "a donut", more/less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mu02xUgE4k

(Don't mean to take away from the gravity of the situation — merely wanted to share a good laugh.)

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