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Je Suis Charlie

charliehebdo.fr

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Re: Je Suis Charlie

#101

Post by DanBC »

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #82
Torgo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing…

Nothing positive can come out of being against insulting other people's faith tradition, or insulting ideas in general. It's just ideas. You're free to have them and express them, everyone else is free to agree with them or ridicule them. Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime and the foundation of freedom.

> Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime

Propaganda using cartoons has been used at all levels of oppression from small groups targeting Others to genocide.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that a cartoon is not an act of violence - because they can be.

(Just for clarity: this does not mean they should be banned)

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#102

Post by mercer »

petercooper wrote: post #4
robteix wrote: post #3

I wonder if the debate in the media will focus on religious fanaticism or if they'll start victim blaming by arguing that Charlie Hebdo was asking for it, being provocative.

The FT already started with the latter: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/01/07/financial...

> Charlie Hebdo has a long record of mocking, baiting and needling French Muslims. If the magazine stops just short of outright insults, it is nevertheless not the most convincing champion of the principle of freedom of speech

How is explicitly challenging those who oppose free speech not the best way to be a 'champion of the principle of free speech'?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#103

Post by DanBC »

coldtea wrote: post #74
Kiro wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can muslims not be religious fanatics or what do you mean? Sorry if I missed something obvious with your comment.

He means it was "islamic fanaticism", so it's islams fault, and those other types are not fanatics... On the other hand the Sintoist Japanese did horrible attrocities in China and Korea back in the day, Israeli Jews can also be genocidal against Palestinians etc. And Christianity has had its share of crime, starting with the Crusades. Budhists might be better, dunno.

Buddhists can be violent.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22356306

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#104

Post by venomsnake »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #80
Torgo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing…

Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it. I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.) On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's…

The people that died today were a warriors. In a war that I am not sure you even realize is waging. The war for the freedom of the human mind. Humor, satire, mockery - they all help society to see through haze.

Because nothing should be sacrosanct. The moment we say that even a single thing is ... then everything that suits the powers that be will be.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#105

Post by aragot »

jknz wrote: post #52
gouggoug wrote: post #21

Some context for people wondering what this is about. Wednesday 7th, at 11am, 3 people entered "Charlie Hebdo" a very well known French satirical newspaper and shot 12 people with kalashnikov. Charlie Hebdo is also known, for their caricatures of the prophet Mahomet. "Je Suis Charlie" means, "I Am Charlie" and is a message of support to the newspaper. This is obviously a very short sum-up.

People are going in the streets to support the newspaper in France and other European cities, a map is available here: http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/carte-interactive-tous... A noticeable fact is how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion.

> how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion

Although it would be nice, from a PR standpoint, if some French Muslim organizations could condemn those events, becuase I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo. Have they? I have searched Google News for that and didn't find links, so please post if there are some. Or they may just not be sufficiently organized for PR.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#106

Post by venomsnake »

agumonkey wrote: post #98
venomsnake wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt it ... the recent Ny cops death and the reaction of the minority of the force (and mostly the union leadership) showed - people will spin any event in whatever is needed, if it is their job to do so.

Can you give me a link or two, I'd like to read more about it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/04/us-usa-police-idUS...

Here is one.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#108

Post by microtonal »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #80
Torgo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing…

Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it. I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.) On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's…

On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's faith traditions to be a virtue.

I don't see that. This is a magazine that you can choose to buy or to ignore. If you don't want to be insulted (most satirical magazines insult everyone, including me), don't buy it.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#109

Post by zak_mc_kracken »

DanBC wrote: post #101
zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing positive can come out of being against insulting other people's faith tradition, or insulting ideas in general. It's just ideas. You're free to have them and express them, everyone else is free to agree with them or ridicule them. Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime and the foundation of freedom.

> Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime Propaganda using cartoons has been used at all levels of oppression from small groups targeting Others to genocide. Don't make the mistake of thinking that a cartoon is not an act of violence - because they can be. (Just for clarity: this does not mean they should be banned)

That's not saying much, though: everything can be considered an act of violence when interpreted by twisted minds. You can get assaulted just for merely looking at someone's wife.

I am just shocked to hear a CNN representative say that we should find ways to avoid offending people with words: this is not just a futile endeavor, it's a very dangerous one that leads to thought police and arbitrary sentences.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#110

Post by alexhughes »

nkantar wrote: post #60
dankohn1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And "Je Suis Charlie" echoes Kennedy's famous line: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner

Please tell me "Charlie" refers to something hilarious, much like "ein Berliner" meant "a donut", more/less. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mu02xUgE4k (Don't mean to take away from the gravity of the situation — merely wanted to share a good laugh.)

Is it possible that the "je suis charlie" pdf being shared is an ISIS hack, a planted virus? Anyone?
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