How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#151

Post by monksy » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 7:40 AM UTC

bbarn wrote: post #120

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

I've had this tried on me before, in Chicago where we're supposed to have super strict taxi laws. The correct response is to dial 911, not 311, and say you've got a taxi attempting to rob you. Notice next time you walk across an intersection at a stop sign, who comes to a complete stop more.. the average driver, or a taxi cab. Taxi's fear police way more than the average driver.

The taxi cabs are nearly as bad as the bikers.

BTW: If it was me I would have walked out, when he attempts to accuse me I'd invite him to call the police. He's trying to change the price after the fact.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#152

Post by monksy » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 7:44 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #138

mc32 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small sprinkle of restaurants[1] have begun trying an alternative where tips are disallowed but include some type of additional charge on your bill and in return the staff get paid a higher wage. According to another article this has resulted in better service from the staff --and that would seem to be opposite of what you might get from continental servers (who customarily don't get tips), so it bears watching. [1…

You don't have to wait for the results to come in. Just go to Europe, where this has been standard practice for decades if not longer. For what it's worth, in my own personal experience and that of others I've talked with, the service in Europe is markedly worse than what you usually get in the US. But anecdotes like mine are too little to go on. I'd be interested to hear if there's been any cross-cultural research o…

Are you kidding me? I've had only a handful of bad service experiences in Europe compared to the numerous great ones.

The Europeans tend not to keep coming back to your table to ask how you're doing, or if something is wrong. If there is something wrong with the meal they'll come because they're watching/paying attention.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#153

Post by sukilot » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 7:46 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #62

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

Is minimum wage a living wage? $7.25 * 44 hours per week * 51 weeks per year is still only 15,950 US$ That's gross, not net. I'm not convinced that people would pay extra even if they didn't have to tip to a company that paid a living wage but charged more.

It's not about the living wage, it's about the audacity of paying a bit too much to be chauffeured around the city.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#154

Post by btian » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 7:46 AM UTC

monksy wrote: post #150

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

Why did you even pay at all? He just completely raised the price during the transaction. On top of that, why on earth did you give 20%?

Because you may get murdered if you don't. Better get out of the situation alive

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#155

Post by sukilot » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 7:49 AM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #60

bunderbunder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping in the USA goes something beyond just being culture. We've even got it ingrained into our laws. Minimum wage for servers is barely nominal, and much less than what anyone else in the restaurant is making. It's expected that customer tips will form the bulk of their earnings. So if you believe that people deserve to be paid a living wage for their time even when they're not at their best, the status quo places…

> the status quo places the onus to make sure that happens on you. The onus is on the employer, not on the employer's customer. Implementation varies by state: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm Some states have a higher minimum cash wage (before tips) than the $2.13 mandated by federal law. e.g. in California this is $9 per hour. In many places, the employer (restaurant) is responsible for topping up the employ…

Do you work for minimum wage? But you expect waiters to smile for it.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#156

Post by sukilot » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 7:51 AM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #145

SilasX wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurant meals aren't 10x more in no-tip countries.

I might have been exaggerating, but my point is that labor is the most costly thing to restaurants. I've worked in restaurants and I've waited tables at a very high-level. There are your entry-level Applebee's servers who have no experience, are in the "survival career" category, or have no aspiration to do anything but work at Applebee's. They should earn 3-4x minimum wage, or about $24k a year. Then you have your m…

Making up a stream of arbitary numbers doesn't explain anything to anyone.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#157

Post by ma2rten » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 8:44 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #136

parennoob wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I come from a culture where tipping implies "reward for good service". But in the US, I always feel that if I tip less than the expected 20%, practically I may be cutting into someone's wages. If they demand the difference, they may end up getting fired by their boss. Does anyone know if these workers are that helpless in practice? Or can they make a single call and get the restaurant owner in trouble if he/she…

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it. The service in Europe tends to be of a much lower quality than in the US as well. In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe. In the US, it's better to be a consumer than an employee. In Europe it's the opposite.

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it.

There is no "mandatory tip" in Europe. It's actually very simple: you pay for a service, the business pays it's employees. How much the employees get payed is not your concern as a customer. You can tip if you received excellent service, but that is totally optional as it should be.

In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe.

That is not true. US is business friendly. Europe is consumer and employee friendly. Just some examples: VAT is included in the price, all electronics include 2 year warranty, if you pay CRV you can return the bottle at the shop, shops must except returns, ...

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#158

Post by deciplex » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 8:49 AM UTC

zach wrote: post #129

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in 2010? You mean this isn't still the case?

Indeed, the entrance of Uber has made taxi rides a market for lemons. The most pleasant and least avaricious drivers are better off within Uber's higher-accountability system. This is nothing specific to SF, either. This kind of nonsense is exactly what dysfunctional markets looks like, and it's everywhere, which is why Uber seems such a breath of fresh air to consumers around the globe. Well, almost everywhere. You…

Japan doesn't bother with tips in the first place.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#159

Post by rasz_pl » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 8:56 AM UTC

nickstefan12 wrote: post #110

mikeash wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you got scammed. How could he just change the amount for the ride? Isn't there a meter that's visible to both of you that shows what's due? If he insists that you have to pay more than what the meter says, tell him to get bent.

The meter said 100, but after I tried to manually enter a tip other than 20, is when I found out about it "actually being 150". He claimed that he had turned the meter off at one point and was actually doing me a favor he wouldn't have done if he had known I was going to barely tip him. I would have stood my ground (having to give turn by turn to your cab driver for 20 minutes is hardly tip worthy), but being in fron…

Sounds like you are a very nice naive person, or/and a total sucker.

You have been scammed, proper course of action would be calling police on the spot (unless you are black).

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#160

Post by deciplex » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 8:59 AM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #137

joshmn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it: if we weren't tipping our wait staff, service would be awful, yet, if we paid our wait staff a livable wage, the prices at restaurants would increase ten-fold.

Restaurant meals aren't 10x more in no-tip countries.

This line of reasoning needs to come up a lot more, across a wide range of topics from universal health care to cab service and everything in between.

The US is unique in a few ways because it has oceans on either side of it, and is otherwise isolated. In most other respects, what works anywhere else should be expected to work there. If other nations can make restaurants work without forcing employees to take less than a pauper's wage from the owners, and thus depend on cultural norms and customer's generosity to live, then so can America. If other nations can get all their citizens health care, then so can America. If other nations can have elections without spending many billions of dollars, then so can America. And so on.

And if Americans for some reason can't make these things work, it is about time for its people to start looking for the fault within themselves, their government, and their society, rather than discarding the ideas as unworkable, because the rest of the civilized world has already proven them out.