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How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

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Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#141

Post by developer1 »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #63
maxerickson wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious. It's not complicated, tips in that situation aren't extra, they are part of the compensation of the entire staff of the restaurant (the waiters usually tip the bussers and the kitchen...). If you don't like the arrangement, you should refrain from eating in such places.

> It's not complicated It _is_ complicated. It's so complicated that (i) there are discussions on the internet about whether 15% or 20% or 25% is fair, and (ii) there are many specialised 'tip calculator' apps. When I walk into a restaurant, how much should I be expecting to pay for 'meets expectation' service? Is this a % of the bill, or a $ amount related to the amount of time I'm being served (a proxy for the amou…

One thing that is true that makes no sense is that tips are designed to be based on the dollar amount of the bill. Why should a 45 minute service of a $100 meal mandate a larger tip than the same 45 minute service of a $50 meal? The staff has put in the same amount of time and effort to serve both meals... yet the more expensive meal expects a larger tip. This aspect makes no sense whatsoever. A tip should be based on the number of clients served at a table + the time spent in the restaurant + perhaps additional money for special requests or complex meals.

If anything, you'd think the cheaper meal should have a larger tip since you're occupying a spot for a cheap meal when they could have had a client sit down and spend 3x as much as you. It's all backwards, the fact that the tip is based on the dollar amount of the meal...

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#142

Post by rjbwork »

johngalt wrote: post #131
madeofpalk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean I understand all of that, I just think it's crazy. As a consumer. Vox said it well with "consumers should not be responsible for paying the incomes of a restaurant owner's employees". I find it hilarious how much intelligent and smart people rationalise the US tipping culture. It's always justified as you need to tip because the staff are paid low because they make it up in tips. It's circular reasoning.

Why do you go to a restaurant rather than buying food from a grocery store and eating at home? The service aspect is what you pay for when going out to eat vs just buying food. Tipping is about connecting the buyers and sellers of services directly. How does sending the money through a manager/owner result in better or more cost effective services?

Honestly, I go to a restaurant so I don't have to cook. If I could get top steakhouse quality (or indian, or italian, etc.) food from a counter where there's no one between me and the cook, I would, but I can't, so I don't, and I'm forced to tip someone I don't even want involved with my food in the first place.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#143

Post by jessriedel »

SeanOC wrote: post #96
nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

If this ever happens again in the future, take a note of the cab's number and call 311 or go to http://nyc.gov/311/ . They take reports of this kind of activity very seriously and will usually prosecute the driver if you're willing to testify.

> if you're willing to testify

Relevant satire:

https://medium.com/@blakeross/uber-gov-29db5fdff372

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#144

Post by pmoriarty »

mc32 wrote: post #140
pmoriarty wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to wait for the results to come in. Just go to Europe, where this has been standard practice for decades if not longer. For what it's worth, in my own personal experience and that of others I've talked with, the service in Europe is markedly worse than what you usually get in the US. But anecdotes like mine are too little to go on. I'd be interested to hear if there's been any cross-cultural research o…

I thought that too, buut then I thought about Japan --and there they get paid near minimum wage (comparable to US minimum wage) but also have no tipping policy (or rather culture) and yet service tends to be great. So I think culture has a significant impact --and I wonder where US staff might fall; towards European apathy or Japanese pride in vocation.

If they take pride in their work that might make me feel better, or it might make them feel better. But that alone is not going to put bread on their table.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#145

Post by joshmn »

SilasX wrote: post #137
joshmn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it: if we weren't tipping our wait staff, service would be awful, yet, if we paid our wait staff a livable wage, the prices at restaurants would increase ten-fold.

Restaurant meals aren't 10x more in no-tip countries.

I might have been exaggerating, but my point is that labor is the most costly thing to restaurants.

I've worked in restaurants and I've waited tables at a very high-level. There are your entry-level Applebee's servers who have no experience, are in the "survival career" category, or have no aspiration to do anything but work at Applebee's. They should earn 3-4x minimum wage, or about $24k a year.

Then you have your more respectable chain: Ruby Tuesday's. 4-6x or about $40k a year.

Something in the middle: Longhorn Steakhouse, 5-7x.

Above that you start talking about restaurant professionals, where they expect to see at least $80k a year. Prices are now 14x, but your server? They're damn good at their job. Never seen a professional in action before? Go to your city's equivalent to Manny's Steakhouse[0].

[0] http://www.mannyssteakhouse.com/

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#146

Post by walterbell »

SilasX wrote: post #137
joshmn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it: if we weren't tipping our wait staff, service would be awful, yet, if we paid our wait staff a livable wage, the prices at restaurants would increase ten-fold.

Restaurant meals aren't 10x more in no-tip countries.

Less middlemen between farm and plate?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#147

Post by weaksauce »

kalleboo wrote: post #127
johngalt wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Yeah that was planned. He's trying to run up the meter. About 30-40% of cabbies will take you on the scenic route if you don't give them specific directions. You don't have to be painfully specific. Just give them a curt overview of the route you wish to take when you get into the cab. Be ready to pay with cash. I'm ready to tip 25% for a no bullshit drive…

And people wonder why Uber is so popular...

and why the incumbent is lobbying so hard to stay relevant.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#148

Post by mrgriscom »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

The problem is that taxi drivers don't really get paid wages at all. Most of them are "independent contractors" that rent the taxi/medallion from someone for the duration of their shift. If they don't make enough to cover that cost, they lose money. To me that is the most messed up part of this entire system -- that the wealth created by the enforced scarcity of taxi medallions accrues to a small owning class that shoulders none of the risk.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#149

Post by monksy »

conductr wrote: post #19
monksy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's the norm and expectation. Theres a reason why the post tax total is the biggest number on the check. (Other than thats how much you owe)

Agree. It is the norm. All restaurants, the most common places to tip, do this too. If they calculate/print suggested tip amounts they use post tax and also if you trigger a gratuity included they use post tax. To be far, I think most people use post tax when calculating tip in their head too.

One thing I saw recently is that a place did 18, 20, 22%. I'm pretty sure I tipped lower just for that.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#150

Post by monksy »

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

Why did you even pay at all? He just completely raised the price during the transaction. On top of that, why on earth did you give 20%?
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