How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#121

Post by parennoob » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 4:45 AM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #59

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

> guaranteed that they will make at least the federal minimum wage Guaranteed legally, and guaranteed in reality are two different things. If I pay someone to drive me somewhere, it's legally guaranteed that they're licensed driver by the government by the appropriate regulator. But in reality, UberX. I would like to know how often employee's end up following this up with their employer, and how often the employer ma…

This. I come from a culture where tipping implies "reward for good service". But in the US, I always feel that if I tip less than the expected 20%, practically I may be cutting into someone's wages. If they demand the difference, they may end up getting fired by their boss.

Does anyone know if these workers are that helpless in practice? Or can they make a single call and get the restaurant owner in trouble if he/she doesn't make up their wages to the minimum? (As an H1B employee, I know well that the theoretical extent of what you can do and the practical extent are sometimes far apart.)

Interestingly, I've seen that this perceived "power/responsibility to ruin someone's job" makes it so that as an outsider, I tip more than the average. I've seen American friends tip 10% when I was tipping 20% for 'average, not great' service.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#122

Post by hueving » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 4:53 AM UTC

SeanOC wrote: post #96

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

If this ever happens again in the future, take a note of the cab's number and call 311 or go to http://nyc.gov/311/ . They take reports of this kind of activity very seriously and will usually prosecute the driver if you're willing to testify.

>if you're willing to testify

Most people aren't over $20, which is why the system is a complete failure.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#123

Post by innguest » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:12 AM UTC

frandroid wrote: post #53

EC1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm the worst person on the planet for not tipping.

Because you would not eat there if the employer paid decent wages and passed it on to you by charging 30% more than the "tipping" restaurant next door. The only way to get around this is to mandate higher minimum wages for hospitality workers, putting every restaurant on a level playing field. This is what they do in Australia and many European countries.

Why must their new mandated wages be higher than the minimum wage? We already have the minimum wage, and I assume that's what it's for? Are hospitality workers better than other minimum wage workers?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#124

Post by yodsanklai » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:15 AM UTC

When I moved to NYC, there was no credit card payement in the cabs. Some friends told me that they tip about 10% (and at least $1). I was surprised when they introduced credit card payement to see that default tip was much higher than that. I assumed it was just to trick people into tipping more, and I kept with my old tipping habit. But this article makes me wonder, should I tip more?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#125

Post by johngalt » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:19 AM UTC

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

> He had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home.

Yeah that was planned. He's trying to run up the meter. About 30-40% of cabbies will take you on the scenic route if you don't give them specific directions. You don't have to be painfully specific. Just give them a curt overview of the route you wish to take when you get into the cab.

Be ready to pay with cash. I'm ready to tip 25% for a no bullshit drive. If they want to put the tip in the meter instead of their pocket that's their call.

Leave if there is any bullshit with insisting on tips or cancelling payments. If he threatens you with police, call his bluff. 'Please call the police, we can both explain the route you took.'

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#126

Post by joshmn » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:30 AM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #34

madeofpalk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less than 15% requires the server to be noticably rude or inattentive. As an Australian, in a country that doesn't have a culture of tipping, I find it very amusing that you would tip a server who was noticably rude. Edit: For context as well, tipping is on the rise up in Australia, but only at classier/fancier/modern/hipster places, and the extent of a tip would be to round up to nearest $10 (or note, if paying ca…

Tipping in the USA goes something beyond just being culture. We've even got it ingrained into our laws. Minimum wage for servers is barely nominal, and much less than what anyone else in the restaurant is making. It's expected that customer tips will form the bulk of their earnings. So if you believe that people deserve to be paid a living wage for their time even when they're not at their best, the status quo places…

Think about it: if we weren't tipping our wait staff, service would be awful, yet, if we paid our wait staff a livable wage, the prices at restaurants would increase ten-fold.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#127

Post by kalleboo » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:30 AM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #125

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

> He had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Yeah that was planned. He's trying to run up the meter. About 30-40% of cabbies will take you on the scenic route if you don't give them specific directions. You don't have to be painfully specific. Just give them a curt overview of the route you wish to take when you get into the cab. Be ready to pay with cash. I'm ready to tip 25% for a no bullshit drive…

And people wonder why Uber is so popular...

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#128

Post by gaadd33 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:31 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #122

SeanOC wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this ever happens again in the future, take a note of the cab's number and call 311 or go to http://nyc.gov/311/ . They take reports of this kind of activity very seriously and will usually prosecute the driver if you're willing to testify.

>if you're willing to testify Most people aren't over $20, which is why the system is a complete failure.

I believe you can testify via a phone call and it takes roughly 10 minutes.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#129

Post by zach » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:35 AM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #115

nickstefan12 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can remember back in 2010, in sf, when taxis would haggle you for wanting to use a credit card, even when they all were labeled with visa window stickers and had machines! They would put cardboard signs in the back that said "cash only, I pay 5% to cc company". I felt bad for drivers who 'all of the sudden' found themselves making 5% less because of credit cards, but come on, let's get with the times! don't haggle…

Back in 2010? You mean this isn't still the case?

Indeed, the entrance of Uber has made taxi rides a market for lemons. The most pleasant and least avaricious drivers are better off within Uber's higher-accountability system.

This is nothing specific to SF, either. This kind of nonsense is exactly what dysfunctional markets looks like, and it's everywhere, which is why Uber seems such a breath of fresh air to consumers around the globe.

Well, almost everywhere. You know where they don't pull this kind of flimflammery, right? That's right, in Japan, where Uber doesn't even try to replace cab companies, it just provides an easier way to book rides with one:

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2014/08/08/in-japan-uber-...

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#130

Post by johngalt » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 5:36 AM UTC

parennoob wrote: post #121

madeofpalk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> guaranteed that they will make at least the federal minimum wage Guaranteed legally, and guaranteed in reality are two different things. If I pay someone to drive me somewhere, it's legally guaranteed that they're licensed driver by the government by the appropriate regulator. But in reality, UberX. I would like to know how often employee's end up following this up with their employer, and how often the employer ma…

This. I come from a culture where tipping implies "reward for good service". But in the US, I always feel that if I tip less than the expected 20%, practically I may be cutting into someone's wages. If they demand the difference, they may end up getting fired by their boss. Does anyone know if these workers are that helpless in practice? Or can they make a single call and get the restaurant owner in trouble if he/she…

They have to report their tips for tax purposes. If the reported wages don't add up to minimum, then the restaurant can get in trouble from a whole host of government agencies. Even if the employee does nothing, the IRS will come calling assuming that tips are being under-reported.