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How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

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Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#111

Post by lotharbot »

mod wrote: post #70
meowface wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiters in the US make an average of $4.63 and median of $4.00 per hour [1] from their employer in wages. They make the rest of their income in tips. If you don't tip, you're potentially taking a not insignificant chunk out of their pay for the day. In the US, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to not tip (by most people's standards at least; some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group), like if the servi…

>> some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group In my experience, they're not tiny. I'm a young male who owned and worked in my own bar in a poor area of the bible belt, so there's those caveats--but I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. My service was in all likelihood better than hers--at the time, we had fewer customers and therefore I was literally abl…

> "I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%."

Can you clarify the circumstances here, namely:

- does she work in your bar? If not, how similar is the place she works (same city? Same type of neighborhood? Same type of services?)

- did you work the same hours / days / crowd demographic? (There may be a difference in tipping expectations on Wednesday mid-afternoon when people are getting a single drink after work, vs Friday night when they're getting multiple drinks and food and trying to impress their date.)

- were there significant changes in the surrounding area, such as a factory opening or closing, that changed customer demographics?

- are there other wait staff you can compare to that would show a pattern? For example, are women in your establishment generally better tipped than men?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#112

Post by nickstefan12 »

cheald wrote: post #106
nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

This sort of crap is exactly why I use Uber whenever possible. There's plenty negative to be said of Uber, but at least the drivers aren't attempting to constantly scam me. I'm absolutely done with putting up with taxi bullshit. There's a lot of security in both parties knowing that their identity is known to a mutual third party, and that bad behavior will have consequences.

I can remember back in 2010, in sf, when taxis would haggle you for wanting to use a credit card, even when they all were labeled with visa window stickers and had machines! They would put cardboard signs in the back that said "cash only, I pay 5% to cc company". I felt bad for drivers who 'all of the sudden' found themselves making 5% less because of credit cards, but come on, let's get with the times! don't haggle your customers. hide that from the customers and raise all prices if you have to.

At the minimum, über has forced taxis to get with the program.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#113

Post by ori_b »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

> There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less.

Minimum wage is a very low wage to start. I don't know any taxi drivers, but most waiters I know expect significantly more than minimum wage.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#114

Post by prawn »

megablast wrote: post #66
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

The problem is that it creates a system that is easy to abuse, by the employer.

And in a small business (restaurants and other service providers), that will happen either intentionally or through time pressure, inexperience, etc. I tend not to like systems that rely on something like this in theory rather than operate from a stronger structure.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#115

Post by lawnchair_larry »

nickstefan12 wrote: post #112
cheald wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of crap is exactly why I use Uber whenever possible. There's plenty negative to be said of Uber, but at least the drivers aren't attempting to constantly scam me. I'm absolutely done with putting up with taxi bullshit. There's a lot of security in both parties knowing that their identity is known to a mutual third party, and that bad behavior will have consequences.

I can remember back in 2010, in sf, when taxis would haggle you for wanting to use a credit card, even when they all were labeled with visa window stickers and had machines! They would put cardboard signs in the back that said "cash only, I pay 5% to cc company". I felt bad for drivers who 'all of the sudden' found themselves making 5% less because of credit cards, but come on, let's get with the times! don't haggle…

Back in 2010? You mean this isn't still the case?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#116

Post by prawn »

js2 wrote: post #46
EC1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm the worst person on the planet for not tipping.

I tip folks in the service industry whenever I have a chance, not just wait staff. I'll tip mechanics, my postal delivery person, the guy who delivers firewood, the hotel maid, etc. The way I see it, it's a very small percentage of my income to someone doing a job I'm glad I don't have to do. I worked retail growing up and dealing with people down right sucks. I'm glad I can ao easily bring a smile to someone's face.…

Do you tip when picking up takeaway, or buying fast food? Or when checking in at the airport? Do you tip a web designer, or when buying a car?

Elsewhere in the discussion, someone notes that the vast majority would tip when buying Coke at the pub, but not at a fast food place. At either place, the process seems pretty similar to me.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#117

Post by prawn »

pkaye wrote: post #49
pavel_lishin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the standard rationalization is that waiters and taxi drivers provide a subjective service. A good waiter will refill your drinks often, make sure you have everything you need, etc. A good taxi drive will get you someplace faster than a bad one, will know shortcuts and longcuts, and understands patterns of traffic to avoid them. A plumber, on the other hand, typically performs a pretty objective job, sho…

But you are supposed to tip even poor taxi drivers and waiters.

And, in my experience, taxi drivers displeased with your tip will make it clear, even if you have no idea what makes for a fair tip.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#118

Post by themartorana »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #74
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

I'm all for changing the absurd system where tipping is practically required for one where a reasonable wage is paid and pre-factored into the cost of the service. But if we all just stopped tipping suddenly, it's the most vulnerable people who bear the brunt until the system adjusts. I think that's pretty morally suspect.

Many changes that end up being pretty good hurt the most vulnerable in the short term. The biggest example of this is the Industrial Revolution.

It's tough to say whether you apply moral leanings towards no disruption at all vs. "in the long term" benefits to everyone, including the most vulnerable among us.

I'm not going to offer an answer, because I'm not sure I have one. I don't want anyone to suffer, but I want everyone to be better off in the end.

Cabbies seem like they're in the heart of every controversy these days - from medallions losing huge amounts of value to wage/tip adjustments.

In the end, do we all benefit?

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#119

Post by mc32 »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #74
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

I'm all for changing the absurd system where tipping is practically required for one where a reasonable wage is paid and pre-factored into the cost of the service. But if we all just stopped tipping suddenly, it's the most vulnerable people who bear the brunt until the system adjusts. I think that's pretty morally suspect.

A small sprinkle of restaurants[1] have begun trying an alternative where tips are disallowed but include some type of additional charge on your bill and in return the staff get paid a higher wage. According to another article this has resulted in better service from the staff --and that would seem to be opposite of what you might get from continental servers (who customarily don't get tips), so it bears watching.

[1]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-restaurants-adopting-no-tip...

PS. The strata of restaurant trying this approach might skew results, so, not sure what results one might get in a broad spectrum of restaurants.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#120

Post by bbarn »

nickstefan12 wrote: post #86

I just ran into this last night: I took a cab home from the airport. One: he had no gps and took a wrong freeway change getting home. Two he barely spoke English. Three I basically had to navigate him back on track and painfully turn by turn. End of the trip I go pay, and he's sad that I want to pay with a credit card. Then the tip meter only has 20% or other. I hit other with a much lower tip. He cancels the transac…

I've had this tried on me before, in Chicago where we're supposed to have super strict taxi laws. The correct response is to dial 911, not 311, and say you've got a taxi attempting to rob you. Notice next time you walk across an intersection at a stop sign, who comes to a complete stop more.. the average driver, or a taxi cab. Taxi's fear police way more than the average driver.
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