How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#41

Post by madeofpalk » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:20 AM UTC

meowface wrote: post #32

madeofpalk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less than 15% requires the server to be noticably rude or inattentive. As an Australian, in a country that doesn't have a culture of tipping, I find it very amusing that you would tip a server who was noticably rude. Edit: For context as well, tipping is on the rise up in Australia, but only at classier/fancier/modern/hipster places, and the extent of a tip would be to round up to nearest $10 (or note, if paying ca…

Waiters in the US make an average of $4.63 and median of $4.00 per hour [1] from their employer in wages. They make the rest of their income in tips. If you don't tip, you're potentially taking a not insignificant chunk out of their pay for the day. In the US, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to not tip (by most people's standards at least; some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group), like if the servi…

Yeah I mean I understand all of that, I just think it's crazy. As a consumer. Vox said it well with "consumers should not be responsible for paying the incomes of a restaurant owner's employees".

I find it hilarious how much intelligent and smart people rationalise the US tipping culture. It's always justified as you need to tip because the staff are paid low because they make it up in tips. It's circular reasoning.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#42

Post by madeofpalk » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:22 AM UTC

meowface wrote: post #32

madeofpalk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less than 15% requires the server to be noticably rude or inattentive. As an Australian, in a country that doesn't have a culture of tipping, I find it very amusing that you would tip a server who was noticably rude. Edit: For context as well, tipping is on the rise up in Australia, but only at classier/fancier/modern/hipster places, and the extent of a tip would be to round up to nearest $10 (or note, if paying ca…

Waiters in the US make an average of $4.63 and median of $4.00 per hour [1] from their employer in wages. They make the rest of their income in tips. If you don't tip, you're potentially taking a not insignificant chunk out of their pay for the day. In the US, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to not tip (by most people's standards at least; some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group), like if the servi…

> Employers are legally required to chip in if the employee doesn't make minimum wage for a pay period,

My own (very uninformed) assumption is that employers would be reluctant to make up the difference and employees would hesitate following this up in fear of getting in their employers 'bad books'

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#43

Post by madeofpalk » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:25 AM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #34

madeofpalk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less than 15% requires the server to be noticably rude or inattentive. As an Australian, in a country that doesn't have a culture of tipping, I find it very amusing that you would tip a server who was noticably rude. Edit: For context as well, tipping is on the rise up in Australia, but only at classier/fancier/modern/hipster places, and the extent of a tip would be to round up to nearest $10 (or note, if paying ca…

Tipping in the USA goes something beyond just being culture. We've even got it ingrained into our laws. Minimum wage for servers is barely nominal, and much less than what anyone else in the restaurant is making. It's expected that customer tips will form the bulk of their earnings. So if you believe that people deserve to be paid a living wage for their time even when they're not at their best, the status quo places…

The circular reasoning is what gets me - they get less than minimal wage because they earn tips because they get a poor wage because they earn tips because...

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#44

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:26 AM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #10

biot wrote: post #2

I find tipping culture really confusing. How is it that when your plumber saves the day and gets your leak fixed (saving you expensive flood restoration costs) you pay the price on the invoice, yet for a car ride from A to B it's worth paying 20% to 30% over the invoice price? Compare that to buying a new vehicle where, regardless of how knowledgeable and spectacular the salesperson is, you are considered to be getti…

Specifically with regard to vehicle sales, dealerships absolutely do not pay invoice price. Between dealer cash, customer cash, holdbacks and other financial things, it is all but a made up number.

[deleted]

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#45

Post by crmd » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:26 AM UTC

EC1 wrote: post #38

crmd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I won't default to a high tip for average service just because other people are doing it. 30% and up is a high tip. 20% is not. Life is short. Be the guy/gal who puts smiles on strangers faces. You can do this by taking care of service staff.

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm the worst person on the planet for not tipping.

The theory is to incentivize awesome service by having each customer decide how much compensation to give based on the server's performance. Those who delight customers make more money, while whose who are bad at customer service make little money and are incentivized to leave the industry and do something not customer-facing.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#46

Post by js2 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:28 AM UTC

EC1 wrote: post #38

crmd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I won't default to a high tip for average service just because other people are doing it. 30% and up is a high tip. 20% is not. Life is short. Be the guy/gal who puts smiles on strangers faces. You can do this by taking care of service staff.

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm the worst person on the planet for not tipping.

I tip folks in the service industry whenever I have a chance, not just wait staff. I'll tip mechanics, my postal delivery person, the guy who delivers firewood, the hotel maid, etc. The way I see it, it's a very small percentage of my income to someone doing a job I'm glad I don't have to do. I worked retail growing up and dealing with people down right sucks. I'm glad I can ao easily bring a smile to someone's face.

When I get rude or incompetent service relative to the price point, I ask to speak to the manager, which I think is a better way to handle things.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#47

Post by gatehouse » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:28 AM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #20

biot wrote: post #2

I find tipping culture really confusing. How is it that when your plumber saves the day and gets your leak fixed (saving you expensive flood restoration costs) you pay the price on the invoice, yet for a car ride from A to B it's worth paying 20% to 30% over the invoice price? Compare that to buying a new vehicle where, regardless of how knowledgeable and spectacular the salesperson is, you are considered to be getti…

I think that the standard rationalization is that waiters and taxi drivers provide a subjective service. A good waiter will refill your drinks often, make sure you have everything you need, etc. A good taxi drive will get you someplace faster than a bad one, will know shortcuts and longcuts, and understands patterns of traffic to avoid them. A plumber, on the other hand, typically performs a pretty objective job, sho…

A lot of companies are giant faceless MBAocracies, and all their front line staff are designed to be minimum cost minimum fuss drones, which selects for checked out losers. The purpose of tipping is to bypass institutional apathy so you can deal with someone who will treat you as human for the right price

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#48

Post by meowface » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:34 AM UTC

jonesdc wrote: post #36

meowface wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiters in the US make an average of $4.63 and median of $4.00 per hour [1] from their employer in wages. They make the rest of their income in tips. If you don't tip, you're potentially taking a not insignificant chunk out of their pay for the day. In the US, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to not tip (by most people's standards at least; some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group), like if the servi…

At first I thought your comment may have been flawed but you clearly recognized that the restaurant owner must cover the pay difference. How is the average/median less than the federally mandated minimum wage law? Could the waiters themselves be under reporting tips?

The average isn't counting tips. Sorry if my post was misleading in that regard.

It's very possible a waiter could be making $4.00 in wage per hour but average out to something like $18/hour when you account for tips, and I think this is pretty common in mid-tier restaurants and up. (My numbers may be way off for that; I've never worked in a service industry.)

Waiters serving establishments in wealthier areas can potentially make a lot of money from tips.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#49

Post by pkaye » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:37 AM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #20

biot wrote: post #2

I find tipping culture really confusing. How is it that when your plumber saves the day and gets your leak fixed (saving you expensive flood restoration costs) you pay the price on the invoice, yet for a car ride from A to B it's worth paying 20% to 30% over the invoice price? Compare that to buying a new vehicle where, regardless of how knowledgeable and spectacular the salesperson is, you are considered to be getti…

I think that the standard rationalization is that waiters and taxi drivers provide a subjective service. A good waiter will refill your drinks often, make sure you have everything you need, etc. A good taxi drive will get you someplace faster than a bad one, will know shortcuts and longcuts, and understands patterns of traffic to avoid them. A plumber, on the other hand, typically performs a pretty objective job, sho…

But you are supposed to tip even poor taxi drivers and waiters.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#50

Post by EC1 » Tue, Jan 06, 2015, 12:38 AM UTC

js2 wrote: post #46

EC1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm the worst person on the planet for not tipping.

I tip folks in the service industry whenever I have a chance, not just wait staff. I'll tip mechanics, my postal delivery person, the guy who delivers firewood, the hotel maid, etc. The way I see it, it's a very small percentage of my income to someone doing a job I'm glad I don't have to do. I worked retail growing up and dealing with people down right sucks. I'm glad I can ao easily bring a smile to someone's face.…

I guess my struggle is internal then. I feel crappy about myself for being weak for tipping because I feel like I'm being scammed out of my own money via guilt given to me by their employer. And then I feel crappy if I don't tip.