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10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

10gui.com

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Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#51

Post by trebor »

andreyf wrote: post #47
joe_the_user wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but his problem actually points to this being a problem for anyone. It becomes a problem when the machine requires all of my dexterity just to accomplish a given task. I dislike all Apple products specifically because they require mouse operations to accomplish things where Linux and MS interfaces tend to have keyboard shortcuts.

In my experience, OSX has much better thought-out keyboard shortcuts than Windows does. A simple example: you'd like to force-kill the focused application. In OSX, you type command-option-esc (one hand), return, return (other hand). I don't know what it is in Vita, but in XP, it would require quite a bit of mousework.

Since XP, when an application froze the window itself would render in spite of the frozen/omitted contents. So when the titlebar got an ending "(not responding)" tag it is easily closed with one click of the close button, then another of "end now" as confirmation.

And there's always alt-f4.

Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#52

Post by alexitosrv »

andreyf wrote: post #47
joe_the_user wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but his problem actually points to this being a problem for anyone. It becomes a problem when the machine requires all of my dexterity just to accomplish a given task. I dislike all Apple products specifically because they require mouse operations to accomplish things where Linux and MS interfaces tend to have keyboard shortcuts.

In my experience, OSX has much better thought-out keyboard shortcuts than Windows does. A simple example: you'd like to force-kill the focused application. In OSX, you type command-option-esc (one hand), return, return (other hand). I don't know what it is in Vita, but in XP, it would require quite a bit of mousework.

I can think in several counter examples:

In mac os x, - how to show the desktop with a keyboard shortcut ?

- how to maximize/minimize/restore a window with a keyboard shortcut (on windows you can press Alt+spacebar, and then x/n/r) ?

- how to efficiently copy/move files in finder with a keyboard shortcut ?

- how is better thought the fact that when you are in finder and then you press enter, you are going to rename a file? because in order to open/execute on a file you must press command+O...

And finally, the operation you asked can be performed on windows by pressing ctrl+shift+esc, and if you are in the process tab, spelling the first letters of the procname, then press delete and confirm.

Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#54

Post by DanielStraight »

Semiapies wrote: post #50
gecko wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without disagreeing, I also don't think it makes sense to discount potentially massive improvements in user interfaces merely because a portion of the population cannot use them.

I'd be against that; on the other hand, I don't buy that trying to make an improvement for more people than just the fully-dexterous and ten-fingered means some massive sacrifice. For that matter, I'm dubious that an interface that needs ten fingers to handle shifting between applications constitutes any massive improvement for anyone.

Right. I use ten fingers to type. Sometimes I don't even use all ten. If I feel like being lazy, I'll type with one hand. Sometimes I scroll my trackball with a single finger while taking a drink of coffee. I don't want all ten of my fingers on an interface at all times.

Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#55

Post by DanielStraight »

NathanKP wrote: post #24
gjm11 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. The first time they say anything about their interface is at about 2:00. That's extremely vague (it's a multitouch sensor! where your mouse would be!). No more specifics until about 4:00 (windows are arranged in only one dimension). They don't actually show the damn thing until 4:45. Oh, and all accompanied by the Most Annoying Music In The World.

Patience. Any good idea requires a full explanation to build it up. I feel that they did the right thing by contrasting the mouse with their new system because it helped show the benefits of a ten figure multi-touch pad compared with a single point mouse.

I'm not entirely convinced they showed such a benefit. I can already use multiple fingers to move windows by clicking anywhere on them... two of those fingers are just on buttons. Not to mention, I still only have two eyes. I can't be looking at 4 things on the screen at the same time anyway.

Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#57

Post by absconditus »

alexitosrv wrote: post #52
andreyf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, OSX has much better thought-out keyboard shortcuts than Windows does. A simple example: you'd like to force-kill the focused application. In OSX, you type command-option-esc (one hand), return, return (other hand). I don't know what it is in Vita, but in XP, it would require quite a bit of mousework.

I can think in several counter examples: In mac os x, - how to show the desktop with a keyboard shortcut ? - how to maximize/minimize/restore a window with a keyboard shortcut (on windows you can press Alt+spacebar, and then x/n/r) ? - how to efficiently copy/move files in finder with a keyboard shortcut ? - how is better thought the fact that when you are in finder and then you press enter, you are going to rename a…

"In mac os x, - how to show the desktop with a keyboard shortcut ?"

F11

"- how to maximize/minimize/restore a window with a keyboard shortcut (on windows you can press Alt+spacebar, and then x/n/r) ?"

There is no such thing as maximize in OS X. Minimize is command + m. I'm not sure how to restore with the keyboard.

"- how to efficiently copy/move files in finder with a keyboard shortcut ?"

Command + c is copy and command + v is paste. Command + x is cut, but there are rules governing when one can cut that I don't understand.

Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#58

Post by stcredzero »

jrockway wrote: post #53

Emacs is a 10 finger multi-touch UI. And it works very well.

Multi-touch is right. A roommate once told me about a guy he knew who rigged up foot-pedal modifier keys to increase his Emacs productivity. And this was in the PS2 heyday! (No flames. I was an avid Emacs user in College & grad school.)

Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#59

Post by stcredzero »

joe_the_user wrote: post #17
CWuestefeld wrote: post #9

That's cool as far as it goes. But what about the keyboard? The mouse is just one aspect of the computer interaction. I can't remove my keyboard from my desk just to make room for this mouse replacement. The keyboard seems a big barrier (literally!) for getting this device on the desktop.

Indeed, double Indeed, what about the keyboard? Funny how much of the video seems act as if the mouse was the ONLY way that users actually input information into computers in the last twenty years. But even the newest user is going to be using the keyboard and the more experienced a user gets, the more they use the keyboard. And even more, as computers become a normal part of human society , interfaces pandering to n…

I would like a keyboard like the small Apple aluminum one, but with a multi-touch pad on the side. Also make the pad a small display like the iPhone. Have it switch modes depending on the Application. It would still be great for application switching and contextual menu selection as in the 10Gui video. One could also have a 10-key mode. Widgets could also appear there.

Re: 10 finger multi-touch UI designed to replace the mouse

#60

Post by stcredzero »

TrevorJ wrote: post #32

Having a non-focused, non-active window arbitrarily take up 1/3 of my viewable monitor at all times would drive me nuts. It also makes no sense to me to go to the trouble of allowing a user to use all ten fingers, and then restricting application interaction to only two or three fingers. I work in rich, deep applications with tons of controls and buttons, if I'm going to go to the trouble of learning to use ten finge…

I think you're onto something. OS interaction/application switching should be simple, and the individual app interaction should be more complex. I think 4 app selection modes are almost too much. 3 is perfect.

Prediction: I suspect that Apple is taking Exposé in exactly this direction.

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