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Google to close engineering office in Russia

reuters.com

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Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#231

Post by notjackma »

a_c_s wrote: post #203
notjackma wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why discriminate against a Russian company over something that may or may not happen? Russia has elections and they have laws which affect businesses based there - pretty much like every other country out there. As the article states, Google is moving its engineers but the sales team is staying, so this reorganization is less to do with politics and more to do with Google centralizing its engineers in Zurich - just l…

Russia has neither free speech nor free elections. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25299116 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/30/russia.politics

China has none of the above and is now the world's largest economy. Doesn't seem to be an impediment to doing business, does it?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-official-america-is-now...

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#232

Post by nisa »

cromwellian wrote: post #10
bgarbiak wrote: post #6

Knowing the government's of Russia ways of controlling the media and opposition, I understand and agree with those scared for personal freedoms. On the other hand, I would feel way better if similar law would be imposed in EU, so my data would stay within its borders and be protected by EU laws.

Actually, the NSA has a greater power to spy on data on foreign soil than on domestic soil. Ironically, although the 'legal' channels for subpoenaing data with warrants exposes data in the US to government demands, there's at least in theory, some kind of oversight by the courts (although we know they rubber stamp everything). I think the idea that data held within your home country is 'safer' may be a false sense of…

* If you are an citizen of the United States.

> I think the idea that data held within your home country is 'safer' may be a false sense of security.

Widely deployed encryption is the only solution. The 'safe' EU data is monitored by the BND in Germany they send the data to the NSA. It's likely similar everywhere else.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#233

Post by notjackma »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #207
notjackma wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why discriminate against a Russian company over something that may or may not happen? Russia has elections and they have laws which affect businesses based there - pretty much like every other country out there. As the article states, Google is moving its engineers but the sales team is staying, so this reorganization is less to do with politics and more to do with Google centralizing its engineers in Zurich - just l…

> Russia has elections and they have laws which affect businesses based there - pretty much like every other country out there In the U.S. I can sign a contract with a private party–or even with the government–and reasonably expect (a) that the terms will be complied with or (b) if they are not, to have reasonable options for compelling performance or collecting damages. In Somalia, on the other hand, a contract is m…

Don't they say the same thing about China and it's rule of law, or lack of? Yet Western businesses flock there.

If I were an investor and an entrepreneur gave me all these reasons for not entering the Russian or Chinese market, as well as refusing to do business with companies from these countries, I would quickly show them the door.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#234

Post by danmaz74 »

trhway wrote: post #218
danmaz74 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "Russia" that is evil. It's Putin's regime that is increasingly evil.

>It's not "Russia" that is evil. It's Putin's regime that is increasingly evil. with 82% (after significant drop recently!) approval rating :)

Yes but what does that 82% actually know? When there is no freedom of the press, when the government controls practically all news outlets, it's difficult to judge what people think.

This even without considering that those Russians who think Putin is evil will think twice before telling so to a random pollster.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#235

Post by xxxyy »

osipov wrote: post #213
CamperBob2 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You falsely equated the actions of a few berserk local cops in the US with the Putin regime. You need people to twist your words so that you don't look like an idiot or worse.

It is just ignorant to be unaware of the scale of police brutality in the United States. Educate yourself.

It is just ignorant to compare US police brutality to, say, Holodomor, and not see connections between Putin and Stalin.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#236

Post by notjackma »

dchichkov wrote: post #216
voidlogic wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Europe is just 3 hours on an airplane from there. I thought everything west of the Ural mountains/river (including Moscow) was considered Europe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Definition

I might be wrong, but I think in the context of discussing Russia it is pretty standard to use the word Europe, assuming 'Europe, excluding Russia/USSR'. Specifically I was talking about a typical flight to a EU country for business/tourism.

It's interesting to note that that the Eurovision song contest includes Russia, Israel and central Asian states, including even Azerbaijan. Perhaps this is an example of soft power projection from the EU "project" of a political union and the creation of a supra-national state...

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#237

Post by seanmcdirmid »

notjackma wrote: post #233
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia has elections and they have laws which affect businesses based there - pretty much like every other country out there In the U.S. I can sign a contract with a private party–or even with the government–and reasonably expect (a) that the terms will be complied with or (b) if they are not, to have reasonable options for compelling performance or collecting damages. In Somalia, on the other hand, a contract is m…

Don't they say the same thing about China and it's rule of law, or lack of? Yet Western businesses flock there. If I were an investor and an entrepreneur gave me all these reasons for not entering the Russian or Chinese market, as well as refusing to do business with companies from these countries, I would quickly show them the door.

Google left china way before they left Russia. Plenty of western companies have trouble working in China, especially since the market has closed up a bit since the Olympics.

After Google left China, their stock went up over time, still much larger than Baidu whose protected market is limited to the mainland.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#238

Post by Yizahi »

mc32 wrote: post #191
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine doing business with a Russian owned company at this point. An autocratic regime has never been good for internet or software freedoms. I'm very glad I chose Sophos over Kaspersky for our shop.

Kaspersky is interesting. I like their security labs but I am always aware their founder was FSB (KGB-trained) and has good relations with senior personnel (nomenklatura) there, so, while I don't think it's automatic that Kaspersky would do the Russ gov 'favors' it's not out of the question either however Wired has reported as such.

Kaspersky proposed to government to implement a kind of internet-passport, and to allow internet usage only for people verified by government.

I wouldn't trust such a person with anything.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#239

Post by notjackma »

osipov wrote: post #200
okatsu wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just compare a minor being told that homosexuality is okay to having sex with an adult? And as I've said earlier, that basically prevents any public promotion.

The logical structure of the two arguments is the same. I don't want my kids to be exposed to public promotion of any sexual lifestyle. In fact I don't even want them to see a blurred photo of Kim Kardashian's naked butt on TV. LGBT community can rent out a conference center and hold the rally there, advertising it publicly and denying minors access to the premises. This is perfectly legal under today's LGBT laws in…

It doesn't matter what you want your kids exposed to... because there are activists who are working with politicians in most Western countries to totally change sex educations classes.

For example, in the UK, teachers are to tell kids as young as 13, which is below the age of consent:

"normal behaviour includes taking an interest in pornography, having sexually explicit conversations, using the internet to chat online and consenting to oral or penetrative sex with the same or opposite gender."

Or kids as young as 9:

" So-called “green behaviours” are defined as those that “reflect safe and healthy sexual development”. For children aged nine to 13, green behaviours include “solitary masturbation” and “use of sexual language”."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11209109/...

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#240

Post by JumpCrisscross »

notjackma wrote: post #233
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia has elections and they have laws which affect businesses based there - pretty much like every other country out there In the U.S. I can sign a contract with a private party–or even with the government–and reasonably expect (a) that the terms will be complied with or (b) if they are not, to have reasonable options for compelling performance or collecting damages. In Somalia, on the other hand, a contract is m…

Don't they say the same thing about China and it's rule of law, or lack of? Yet Western businesses flock there. If I were an investor and an entrepreneur gave me all these reasons for not entering the Russian or Chinese market, as well as refusing to do business with companies from these countries, I would quickly show them the door.

China's economy is big, growing, and rapidly diversifying across industries and into consumption. Russia's is treading water, concentrated, and shrinking away from consumption.

China also has more pro-business and -investment infrastructure than Russia, e.g. well-defended special economic zones, empowered pro-development governance, etc. Bejing has been more stable and predictable in respect of these priorities than Moscow.

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