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The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

nytimes.com

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Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#151

Post by Poiesis »

marktangotango wrote: post #101
marktangotango wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 40+ you realize you've pretty much accomplished everything you're going to with your life. All those plans and ambitions? You've had 40 years to act, if you haven't done something yet, chances are you're not going to. Its all down hill from there. Hopefully you've got a family you can put you're energy into. At least this was how i felt 40+, ymmv.

Thanks for the down votes, guess it's wasn't obvious enough I posted my personal experience, was the ymmv (your mileage may vary) at the end not enough?

You're still alive, right?

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#152

Post by hessenwolf »

protomyth wrote: post #77
db48x wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The folks living in the reservations have not grown their economies. Economic growth isn't something that happens automatically; you have to go out and start new enterprises, invent new technologies, etc. Some cultures are simply incapable of this and will eventually die out; if you want an extreme example go read "Don't Sleep, There are Snakes" by Daniel Everett.

Perhaps you should look at the conditions that were imposed on these areas. Horrible government education and health care, relocation of individuals resulting in horrific suicide rates, boarding schools that beat students for keeping their culture and language, US government mishandling resources to the point the Dept of Interior was required to cut their internet connection multiple times. Never mind the oil and ura…

I agree with your last line. The comment made me want to wash after reading it.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#153

Post by zanny »

morgante wrote: post #112
jokoon wrote: post #92

I live in france, am 29, I worked 2 months in my life. "what they do instead" Trying to go back to school, I learned programming for 2 years in some technician school program, did not get the degree, after that I expanded my programming skills by myself, but it has been pretty bleak. I'm quite ashamed of myself. I have many ideas of projects, but they really seems to be out of my reach in terms of skill, experience,…

> I don't feel the industry really needs that many programmers. That's definitely false, at least in the US.

That's definitely false, we aren't virtualizing brains, we don't have sapient AI, and Mesa still needs tessellation shaders. Plenty of work left to be done.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#154

Post by josephschmoe »

MCRed wrote: post #2

Look ma, that's me! Free of a soul crushing corporate job, back to doing a "startup", I may not have the cash rolling in, but at least I'm in control of my destiny. Hey Ma, I'm moving in! I think there are a lot of people out there like me. I have some money coming from side projects, several opportunities to grow that, and several opportunities for new side projects. And quite a long personal runway before I have to…

Actually, I think this is less common now than it was 20 years ago.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#155

Post by zanny »

emodendroket wrote: post #111
blazespin wrote: post #50

The problem is there is a multiplier affect from technology today that causes unemployment. The average IQ required to be economically relevant is increasing each year.

It's not as though if everyone were a Harvard-educated brainiac it would suddenly be possible for everyone to have high-paying jobs.

Well, one, being Harvard educated does not necessarily mean you are really a brainiac. Above the curve certainly, but you still have deviations from the mean in both directions.

And no, even if everyone were a genius, there are limited funds allocated by geniuses to pay geniuses to be geniuses. But if everyone were brilliant and have complete information and comprehensive educations about everything, either we are already in post-scarcity singularity utopia or we are imminently going to get there because you have hundreds of millions of geniuses capable to work on it, and geniuses running the system capable of realizing that potential and working to make it happen.

So either you are in a state where employment no longer matters, or your geniuses are smart enough to devote all their overflow resources to getting there, since they are all geniuses, they can all contribute to that end goal.

We simultaneously have people who just do not have the skills or mental capabilities to contribute, and leadership that is too ignorant or selfish to acknowledge the benefits of investing in research and science, and thus neither is possible.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#156

Post by xrange »

fredophile wrote: post #148
lpsz wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upon some more research, it looks like Earned Income Tax Credit [1] attempts to provide some minimal incentives along these lines. Simplified analysis, goal is situation C. Let's say my monthly welfare income is $1000. A. I start earning $200. My welfare decreases by $200. Why don't I just stay on welfare? B. I start earning $200. My welfare decreases by $300. I've lost $100, a penalty for working. C. I start earning…

It's actually more likely that your A and B scenarios are the same. I'd consider a more realistic A scenario to be: I start earning $200. My welfare decreases by $200. My expenses increase by $100 (transportation to/from work, childcare while at work, clothes specifically for work, etc). Once you realize that work usually has more costs than just time A and B become the same.

It is even worse than that. Now you are spending X hours per day being told what to do, instead of spending X hours doing whatever you want.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#157

Post by Fomite »

fredophile wrote: post #148
lpsz wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upon some more research, it looks like Earned Income Tax Credit [1] attempts to provide some minimal incentives along these lines. Simplified analysis, goal is situation C. Let's say my monthly welfare income is $1000. A. I start earning $200. My welfare decreases by $200. Why don't I just stay on welfare? B. I start earning $200. My welfare decreases by $300. I've lost $100, a penalty for working. C. I start earning…

It's actually more likely that your A and B scenarios are the same. I'd consider a more realistic A scenario to be: I start earning $200. My welfare decreases by $200. My expenses increase by $100 (transportation to/from work, childcare while at work, clothes specifically for work, etc). Once you realize that work usually has more costs than just time A and B become the same.

There are some scenarios, usually at income thresholds for various benefits, that the B scenario is manifestly true even without expenses - earn another dollar, and you'll lose money.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#158

Post by malandrew »

ColinCera wrote: post #128
bluedino wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disability rate of 20-30 year olds really jumped in the last few years.

There's quite a lot of disability fraud going on, some of it downright shocking. Example #1: A couple of weeks ago, my brother, an orthopedist, had a 26-year-old man come in for an ankle sprain. In the course of working up the ankle -- mildly sprained, no problem -- he found that the patient doesn't work and is on 100% disability. Why? Because of acne. Yes, acne. Apparently when he was 19 or 20 he had such severe acn…

It's pretty disgusting that those that are supposed to be stopping crimes are knowingly and intentionally committing fraud to get additional money from the state. Between this and the recent civil asset forfeiture scandals, I'm amazed people aren't more outraged.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#159

Post by zanny »

ctdonath wrote: post #67

Where does minimum wage [objectively] fit in? If an employer can't pay someone what a job is worth, either the job doesn't get done or a machine is found to do it - leaving someone without the opportunity for a job. Yes, it may not be a "living wage", but no wage is even less desirable. I've started using Taco Bell's remote ordering app. The clerk, seeing how I'd ordered (not using his services), yesterday thanked me…

> he's facing prospects of no job instead of an easy one.

Everyone is. He is not an exception - every office worker, every lawyer, even every artist is every day one step closer to obsolescence to automation. He might just be really smart and realize the sooner we get there, and the sooner we work out the paradigm shift it requires to approach post scarcity like that, the sooner we either reach the end of free society or enter an era of utopia, and either would be better than stagnating on the brink.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#160

Post by ForHackernews »

hyperpape wrote: post #80
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #74

The silent yet steady substitution of unemployment benefits with federal disability insurance is well covered in an episode of This American Life [1]. We, as a country, have a shoddy system for re-training low-skills workers facing technological obsolescence. We have also set up a system under which unemployment benefits are largely a state liability. Disability, on the other hand, is federally funded. The intersecti…

There is also an issue with disability benefits where they are structured with disincentives to work. The motivation to not pay disability to people who can work is understandable, but for people who can work some but whose disability hinders their ability to get a full-time job or one that's not highly paid, it's a disaster. http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/07/aid... This is a point that's not f…

A big problem is that if people leave disability, they'll lose their Medicaid health insurance, and low-paying part-time jobs won't replace that. This is another example of America being penny-wise, pound-foolish when it comes to healthcare costs.
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