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The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

nytimes.com

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Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#61

Post by gutnor »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #13
MCRed wrote: post #2

Look ma, that's me! Free of a soul crushing corporate job, back to doing a "startup", I may not have the cash rolling in, but at least I'm in control of my destiny. Hey Ma, I'm moving in! I think there are a lot of people out there like me. I have some money coming from side projects, several opportunities to grow that, and several opportunities for new side projects. And quite a long personal runway before I have to…

> I may not have the cash rolling in, but at least I'm in control of my destiny. Hey Ma, I'm moving in! How are people who don't have a meaningful source of income and who are dependent on their parents for shelter any more in control of their destinies than corporate worker bees?

It is not only that - even when you run your own company you can and often are effectively dependent on your clients/market ( especially that big client making 80% of your revenue ), or the need of your dependents ( you still need to pay your mortgage ) . That's a common complain here on HN of founder "selling out", "losing the original spirit", ...

There is a cultural bias for entrepreneur, especially in the US (that's not a bad thing BTW), so struggling directly against the market is seen as more glamorous then through a corporate structure/middleman.

In the end, you are as in control of your destiny as much as your wealth permit, no matter how you made that wealth in the first place.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#64

Post by marktangotango »

mamurphy wrote: post #27

I am mesmerized by the age 40 bar. It barely moves; a few more people are retired or are in school. My armchair speculation is that turning 40 really makes people reexamine their decisions.

At 40+ you realize you've pretty much accomplished everything you're going to with your life. All those plans and ambitions? You've had 40 years to act, if you haven't done something yet, chances are you're not going to. Its all down hill from there. Hopefully you've got a family you can put you're energy into. At least this was how i felt 40+, ymmv.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#65

Post by mtbcoder »

bruceb wrote: post #5

There are books on this phenomenon. Part of what they say is now men have access to their basic needs with out needing to work as much. Entertainment is abundant and relatively cheap and sex isn't tied to marriage. You can lounge around and be if not exactly satisfied, at least not terrible wanting for stuff. Of course these guys are screwed when it comes to retirement.

Who is saying that and what is their data? I wouldn't say it never happens, but it sounds more like the kind of argument a random, obnoxious TV pundit would make.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#66

Post by drcomputer »

jahnu wrote: post #29
shutupalready wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies hoarding cash instead of spending it I've heard this sentiment many times but I've wondered if there's an economic fallacy there. Would the economy be better off if lots of companies stopped hoarding cash and hired lots of new employees? Or would there be side-effects like inflation, or some effect of pulling out cash from whatever it was invested in, etc.? Serious question.

Very little down side. People with more income spend more which grows the economy. In a two person economy, your expenditure is my income and my expenditure is your income. If one of us hoards then both of us lose eventually. Also moderate inflation is a good thing. It disincentivises hoarding of cash.

Do you think the same rules apply to an information economy?

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#67

Post by ctdonath »

Where does minimum wage [objectively] fit in?

If an employer can't pay someone what a job is worth, either the job doesn't get done or a machine is found to do it - leaving someone without the opportunity for a job. Yes, it may not be a "living wage", but no wage is even less desirable.

I've started using Taco Bell's remote ordering app. The clerk, seeing how I'd ordered (not using his services), yesterday thanked me for making his job easier. Couldn't help thinking that rather than happy, he should be scared: with all the talk about pushing for $15/hr minimum wages, coupled with automation of order-taking, he's facing prospects of no job instead of an easy one.

I know minimum wage is meant to help, but it only contributes to increased unemployment and inflation.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#68

Post by carrotleads »

melvinmt wrote: post #55
threatofrain wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the sad fact is that so many people are now in front of vast, utterly vast learning resources, and it just doesn't matter. Rich or poor, there are numerous people sitting in front of extreme learning resources, and they'll never do anything with it unless there's this enormous infrastructure designed to remedy issues of motivation and planning. And that's where I think the difference is between rich and poor;…

It's a common misconception that the inability of poor people to learn/grow is related to motivation or "laziness", you should read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Scarcity-having-little-means-much-eboo...

don't think he said that... lack of motivation affects the non-poor too... A motivated person found ways to improve even when access was not as easy as it is today.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#69

Post by pbhjpbhj »

melvinmt wrote: post #55
threatofrain wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the sad fact is that so many people are now in front of vast, utterly vast learning resources, and it just doesn't matter. Rich or poor, there are numerous people sitting in front of extreme learning resources, and they'll never do anything with it unless there's this enormous infrastructure designed to remedy issues of motivation and planning. And that's where I think the difference is between rich and poor;…

It's a common misconception that the inability of poor people to learn/grow is related to motivation or "laziness", you should read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Scarcity-having-little-means-much-eboo...

As both a lazy and a poor person I think there's definitely a significant proportion who could work but can't be bothered to, who could get a better education but can't be bothered to.

I'm doing an online python course, but works busy at the moment and I missed my last deadline; I just can't be bothered, motivation is really hard to me (perhaps it is for everyone though).

That's not to say that there can't be many people, perhaps a majority, who are poor and disadvantaged by their poverty to an extent that locks them out of opportunities. I just think you have to be careful you're not saying "well sure he's lazy but looks he's poor so he can't help himself".

I can't afford that book could you say why you recommend it; our libraries here will order any book requested for a small charge.

Re: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work – And What They Do Instead

#70

Post by morganvachon »

yen223 wrote: post #38
jsilva wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "privileged classes", not sure i understood your idea ?

For one thing, you need savings. If you absolutely need a paycheck this month to make it through to next month, you simply cannot afford the risks involved in doing the whole startup thing. Another thing, you need skills. But it's very difficult to get a decent education (formal or otherwise) if your family isn't able to support you during your formative learning years. It's not easy to learn programming if your fami…

> Basically, if you want to do a startup, you had better not be poor or uneducated.

Robert Herjavec would disagree with you, as would Sam Walton, Andrew Carnegie, Li Ka-shing, and dozens more who overcame poverty and a lack of education via hard work and common sense (and yes, a bit of luck in some cases) to become successful businessmen.

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