McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels • Hacker News Board

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#101

Post by debacle » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

Steuard wrote: post #95

meric wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically removing the consequences of gluttony is likely to increase demand for food products and therefore increase its price, reducing available food supply and increasing world hunger. Food supply can be temporarily boosted by farming the land more intensively, but in the long run will also be detrimental to food production. Until our food production can be dramatically increased with minimal effect on the envi…

You're doubling down on the "obesity is a moral disease" stance here ("gluttony" is explicitly a moral judgement). I've come to suspect that it really isn't as simple as "lack of self-control": too many people I know have gained significant weight due to medications or medical conditions, or despite sincere and sustained efforts to bring their weight under control. (I'm also quite intrigued by claims that even broad…

The broadest factor is US food politics. And that's far easier to fix than trying to cure cancer - end market manipulation that keep the costs of some goods artificially high and the others artificially low.

Somehow instead we've created a food economy where the absolute worst food for you, even though it's not very economical to grow, is far cheaper because of the disincentive to produce things like cheese and non-bovine livestock and the incentive to grow corn.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#102

Post by swombat » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 2:51 PM UTC

Steuard wrote: post #100

swombat wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity is absolutely a moral disease, in the sense that you don't get fat without eating yourself fat, as well as a disease of our society, in terms of our society producing foods that encourage people to eat themselves fat. Broader factors certainly share the blame, but so do individuals. It is possible for almost anyone to be thin in today's society, in the same way that it was possible for almost anyone to get fa…

In general, I agree that there's always some responsibility on the individual. But in a lot of cases, I really don't think it's helpful to look at it that way. I have a friend who was in great physical shape consistently for years. Then (going from memory on the details here) at some point she got on a new medication for migraines, and within a few months she'd gained a surprising number of pounds. Her eating and act…

The case you mention is clearly exceptional. It does not explain the huge rise in obesity over the last few decades.

To clarify: when I say "obesity is a moral disease" I'm talking about obesity as a social trend, not a specific overweight person - those can have very good explanations... but the majority don't, imho.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#103

Post by kaybe » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:15 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #80

onewaystreet wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most likely culprit is processed food Food doesn't jump into kids' mouths and eat itself. If there's a problem with what kids are eating then it's their parents who are to blame.

access to fresh food is more expensive now that the industry has gone more and more into processed foods. People have to eat, and if you can't afford to get high-quality food, you're gonna buy low-quality food.

Only in terms of time, at least here in Europe. If you get noodles, flour, rice and in-season vegetables and fruit (and don't choose these for wants but for price, there are some ridiculous deals sometimes), plus some more expensive ingredients such as eggs and milk sparingly, it is very cheap. There's no way processed food can beat that.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#104

Post by sp332 » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:25 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #102

Steuard wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, I agree that there's always some responsibility on the individual. But in a lot of cases, I really don't think it's helpful to look at it that way. I have a friend who was in great physical shape consistently for years. Then (going from memory on the details here) at some point she got on a new medication for migraines, and within a few months she'd gained a surprising number of pounds. Her eating and act…

The case you mention is clearly exceptional. It does not explain the huge rise in obesity over the last few decades. To clarify: when I say "obesity is a moral disease" I'm talking about obesity as a social trend, not a specific overweight person - those can have very good explanations... but the majority don't, imho.

So you think the population just got less moral recently? How about the fact that cheap food has less nutrition per calorie, and people have less money available in their food budget now. So they eat more calories because high-calorie food is what they can afford.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#105

Post by ap22213 » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

Steuard wrote: post #95

meric wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically removing the consequences of gluttony is likely to increase demand for food products and therefore increase its price, reducing available food supply and increasing world hunger. Food supply can be temporarily boosted by farming the land more intensively, but in the long run will also be detrimental to food production. Until our food production can be dramatically increased with minimal effect on the envi…

You're doubling down on the "obesity is a moral disease" stance here ("gluttony" is explicitly a moral judgement). I've come to suspect that it really isn't as simple as "lack of self-control": too many people I know have gained significant weight due to medications or medical conditions, or despite sincere and sustained efforts to bring their weight under control. (I'm also quite intrigued by claims that even broad…

Exactly. We can all agree that the environment that Humans live in is considerably different than it was 10K years ago. Expecting our bodies and minds to function well, within it, is asking for a lot.

I have no shame in taking medications and using technologies that help me sustain normality within an abnormal environment. Maybe someday we will also come up with a cure for 'moral judgement', as well.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#106

Post by exelius » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 5:59 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #50

exelius wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good thing up to a point, but we're seeing the negative sides of it too. Namely, we as a society expend a lot of resources on prolonging our lives (in the form of health care costs). We're probably about as far as we can go on life expectancy using cheap/preventative methods like antibiotics and diet/lifestyle changes. So any additional growth in life expectancy will probably be exponentially more expensive (a…

"If you look at Japan or the US, the increase in life expectancy has coincided with a drop in the birth rate" I don't think one caused the other.

I don't either -- but together, they lead to a situation where there are relatively more old people than young people.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#107

Post by the_cat_kittles » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 6:31 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #38

tempestn wrote: post #37

I don't really understand the comments here, and especially on the article itself, deriding this research because "people should just get off their butts and exercise" or similar. I'm sure the researchers wouldn't dispute the benefits of exercise. But if there really is a safe, effective way to improve the metabolism and make it easier to keep off fat, why exactly is that a bad thing? (Naturally the research is far t…

There are few topics that create as much controversial conversation. The well known ones are religion and politics, the third is 'diet/exercise.' Always a lot of energy.

I think its a variation of "bikeshedding"- everyone eats and gets some form of exercise, so everyone feels entitled to an opinion.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#108

Post by npsimons » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 7:35 PM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #37

I don't really understand the comments here, and especially on the article itself, deriding this research because "people should just get off their butts and exercise" or similar. I'm sure the researchers wouldn't dispute the benefits of exercise. But if there really is a safe, effective way to improve the metabolism and make it easier to keep off fat, why exactly is that a bad thing? (Naturally the research is far t…

I don't really understand the comments here, and especially on the article itself, deriding this research because "people should just get off their butts and exercise" or similar.

The problem is, from a libertarian/rugged individualism point of view, failure to lose weight is a simple failure of self control. Calories out have to be greater than calories in, after all. Also, I'm willing to bet more than a few people here have heard the fatlogic of "it's my genetics" or "it's the drugs I'm on". While there are some conditions and drugs that can contribute to weight gain, it's not nearly as common as most people using the excuse would like to think, and it usually doesn't work that way (most drugs that "cause" weight gain do it by intensifying hunger signals, not modifying metabolism, which is fairly difficult to do to any great degree via drugs - otherwise this article wouldn't be noteworthy!).

In the end, this most likely won't help the majority of the obese, who do have a medical condition (try being obese for any amount of time and tell me it's not having a negative impact on your joints, at a minimum; there is no good health above or below certain sizes). If anything, this will just make the problem worse by enabling people to consume even more food, and probably end up putting on more weight, especially since it seems that most causes of obesity are psychological (unconscious eating, eating past satiety, bad food choices, etc). Also, if some of the comments here are to be believed, this drug will just treat the symptom of obesity and not the cause (eg, processed food, BPA, etc).

I do think this research could have great applications into life extension, or helping people feel younger, but my money is on this drug not having any noticeable effect on the obese population.

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#109

Post by npsimons » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #3

> They're calling it a possible solution to obesity and a preventative measure for diabetes, one that turns up the body's metabolic rate without the negative side effects of increasing the heart rate or blood pressure. I think "possible solution" is too strong. According to the CDC, as of 2012 "more than one third of children and adolescents were overweight or obese" so it logically follows that simply restoring the…

Also, while it's promising that this doesn't increase heart rate or blood pressure, weight is just one factor in overall health.

True, but it's a very telling factor. Past a certain upper threshold, weight will have adverse impacts on a person's health, eg joint issues at a minimum. It's fairly easy and logical to look at a skinnier person (above a certain lower bound) and predict they will have fewer medical issues than a fat person. Of course, this is judging by certain proportions, hence why the BMI was invented (and before anyone goes off on the inaccuracy of BMI, just realize that unless body fat percentage is below a certain threshold (eg high-level athletes), BMI is a fairly accurate predictor of health).

Re: McMaster researchers may have found a way to restore metabolism to youth levels

#110

Post by ryanobjc » Sat, Dec 13, 2014, 12:27 AM UTC

swombat wrote: post #97

Steuard wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doubling down on the "obesity is a moral disease" stance here ("gluttony" is explicitly a moral judgement). I've come to suspect that it really isn't as simple as "lack of self-control": too many people I know have gained significant weight due to medications or medical conditions, or despite sincere and sustained efforts to bring their weight under control. (I'm also quite intrigued by claims that even broad…

Obesity is absolutely a moral disease, in the sense that you don't get fat without eating yourself fat, as well as a disease of our society, in terms of our society producing foods that encourage people to eat themselves fat. Broader factors certainly share the blame, but so do individuals. It is possible for almost anyone to be thin in today's society, in the same way that it was possible for almost anyone to get fa…

A lot of your statements are ignoring broad swaths of biology and neuro-psych research!

To talk about weight gain without digging in to the biochemical reasons why is ridiculous. To just chalk it up to "well the foods are bad, and hey don't eat them" is also just as ignorant as those poor people who are victims of the food industry.

And yes, I say victims, because I believe that the food that is typically produced, and labeled as healthy, is highly addictive. One of the things we are discovering is that much of what we eat affects our dopamine systems! Literally our food is addictive and has activation pathways similar to cocaine or heroin!

You have very little choice when struggling against your dopamine system. It's very powerful. Research in to 'will power' indicates its substantially less powerful than people think.

So, now you are saying people who are following advice, or forced by economic circumstances in to eating food that has been incredibly harmful (and carcinogenic!) are immoral. You are expecting everyone to be super-human, or you'll say they are literally bad people.

I refuse to take such a pessimistic view of humanity. People do what makes sense to them, and it is the responsibility of ALLEGED intelligent people like yourself to HELP them. Not sit on a high perch and laugh at them!

So, I finish this off by saying, not only is obesity a disease, and not a moral failing, that in fact YOU are the one with a moral failing!