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Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

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Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#281

Post by Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd »

polskibus wrote: post #246
kriro wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a somewhat related note, one of the things that irks me the most (working in Germany) is that I have to take a 30 minute break after 6h of work and another 15 minute break after 9h and can't work more than 10h without someone signing off on it. I can't even opt out of this. This seems totally broken, especially since you are not technically supposed to take other breaks without signing out of work. As someone usin…

Surely you could go self-employed with contract in the same company. This way you can follow your own path while everybody else can use what os provided by the law. You would also earn more per hour to compensate for holidays you would normally be entitled to.

You can't self-employ in Germany without actually working for more than one company. (It was abused too much to get around employee protections.)

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#282

Post by Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd »

kriro wrote: post #222
zeidrich wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for many Americans, work is life. You get up, you spend an hour in the commute to work, you spend your 9 hours at work, you spend some more because overtime is expected, you commute home, you watch some reality television and go to bed. At work you have made friends, you spend time browsing the internet, following up on your hobbies, etc. This is where life ends up happening. 8 hours consumed by sleep, or the…

On a somewhat related note, one of the things that irks me the most (working in Germany) is that I have to take a 30 minute break after 6h of work and another 15 minute break after 9h and can't work more than 10h without someone signing off on it. I can't even opt out of this. This seems totally broken, especially since you are not technically supposed to take other breaks without signing out of work. As someone usin…

> This seems totally broken, especially since you are not technically supposed to take other breaks without signing out of work.

That really depends on your employer. Plenty of companies have Vertrauensarbeitszeit (~trust-based working time) where nobody writes down when or how long employees worked. However, it's usually seen as a bad thing because people tend to over-correct on the breaks they took and under-correct for the overtime they worked.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#283

Post by dyadic »

There are a few people here commenting about how their employer's unlimited vacation policy allows them to take two weeks vacation and then work remotely for a week or two extra. That's great, and it's good to see companies allowing it but remote work is still work, and it certainly isn't a vacation.

Many people are working remote by default* and already have to fight certain perceptions that they are just sitting in their pants, watching tv, and eating chips all day, and it certainly doesn't help when others liken working remotely to being a holiday.

It's definitely a good thing that more companies are opening up to remote work and trusting their people to get things done without being watched over, let's not perpetuate this idea of it just being a bunch of slackers that do it.

* including me, obviously, and hence this response.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#284

Post by johnward »

baddox wrote: post #230
johnward wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US that's weird because the mandatory days off per year are 0. A good amount for most people in the US is 10 days per year (or two weeks). I get 4 weeks which is pretty great but many of the people I work with end up not taking all of those days or taking days and also working on them due to culture. It's ridiculous.

> In the US that's weird because the mandatory days off per year are 0. Only if you assume that a nation-wide law is the only condition under which non-zero vacation days will emerge.

Most people get some time off but a significant amount of people still get no time off and work on holidays.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#285

Post by johnward »

Tenhundfeld wrote: post #191
johnward wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't understand this one. If you're going to give someone 4 weeks off (which is extremely generous in the US) just give it to them at the beginning of the year. Some places let you take the vacation before you accrue it but if you were to quit before earning enough to cover the days you've taken you owe the company money.

This doesn't detract from your main point, but... 4 weeks off is not necessarily "extremely generous." It depends on whether that includes holidays. You might say that of course vacation days don't include holidays, but I know of several small tech/biotech companies that just give X total days of paid time off, usually 25-30. You can choose to take those PTO hours on holidays or not, which is more flexible I suppose.…

I get 20 actual vacation days. I think maybe 8 recognized holidays and 2 personal choice holidays and I think another 2 holidays that are chosen by work site. So I get 30-32 days off per year which is pretty generous. For most people I know you would need to work 15 years before you earn even 4 weeks and that is usually the max amount. I'd say it's common for most white collar jobs to give you 2 weeks off until you hit 5 years then you might earn another week.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#286

Post by innguest »

asgard1024 wrote: post #90

I would go even further and postulate that lack of rules about who is in power kills societies. Many equate "lack of rules" with "freedom", but it's a problem. People without conscience will freely abuse the lack of rules or start to fight with each other, while the good people will get screwed. Eventually, the good people, who usually just want to do the work, will get unhappy and leave. This applies not only to vac…

This is a bunch of leftist FUD to be honest.

Read up on libertarianism. You've even managed to get the definition of "freedom" wrong. Lack of rules? Are we using arguments from decades ago? It's lack of rulers. There's never a lack of rules because we all understand natural law.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#287

Post by krapp »

innguest wrote: post #286
asgard1024 wrote: post #90

I would go even further and postulate that lack of rules about who is in power kills societies. Many equate "lack of rules" with "freedom", but it's a problem. People without conscience will freely abuse the lack of rules or start to fight with each other, while the good people will get screwed. Eventually, the good people, who usually just want to do the work, will get unhappy and leave. This applies not only to vac…

This is a bunch of leftist FUD to be honest. Read up on libertarianism. You've even managed to get the definition of "freedom" wrong. Lack of rules? Are we using arguments from decades ago? It's lack of rulers. There's never a lack of rules because we all understand natural law.

>There's never a lack of rules because we all understand natural law.

No we don't.

More to the point, I can guarantee that not everyone agrees with your understanding of whatever 'natural law' is, or with your inalienable right to exercise that view in their presence. Not even Libertarians agree on that.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#288

Post by orkoden »

mhurron wrote: post #109
Arjuna wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the link to that study. In "europe" a two week vacation (10 work days) is common/standard. As opposed to American's "long weekends." To that point, if you've ever wondered (as I have) about the differences in philosophy on the topic of vacation between America and Europe, you may enjoy this paper [1]. It attempts to examine those differences. It's entitled "Europeans Work To Live and Americans Live To Work…

> This study suggests that as the number of work hours increases, Americans become happier about life This makes sense. From a very early age, Americans are inundated with the idea that their worth is tied to if they work hard and have a job. Those that don't have a job or those that aren't perceived as working hard are below them. The worst thing they can say about someone is they are lazy. I work from home 2-3 days…

> their worth is tied to if they work hard

The stress being on working hard. Efficiency is less of a priority.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#289

Post by orbifold »

Igglyboo wrote: post #256
butwhy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you imply that 2-3 weeks is a long time, plus longer than your colleagues. This makes an unlimited vacation policy completely pointless if you ask me.

2-3 weeks is a long time in the US. I get 10 days off a year, many people get less. Federally mandated vacation is also not a thing here.

It escapes me why anyone would voluntarily move to the US to work.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#290

Post by rudolf0 »

zelos wrote: post #143
organsnyder wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but many employers aren't required to offer maternity leave (let alone paternity leave). My wife has had to combine accrued vacation time, sick days, and unpaid leave just to get to six weeks of maternity leave.

That's pretty crazy. Do many companies actually tend to provide maternity leave as a benefit? It makes a bit of a joke of gender equality in the workplace, IMHO.

Many companies do provide maternity leave, many (but fewer) also provide paternity leave, but companies below a certain size are not federally required to provide either (though I believe there are some arrangements where you can take unpaid maternity leave but legally can't be fired during your maternity leave).
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